For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc... - Page 3 - LS1TECH



Advanced Engineering Tech For the more hardcore LS1TECH residents
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

For those who want big nasty cams with lots of lift, etc...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-07-2005, 07:33 PM   #41
TECH Fanatic
 
treyZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Yukonxl
Just to educate me, on what basis did you make this comment? What do you consider to be a poor camshaft selection?
I watch people pick big cams when they dont want to gear or stall their cars
I watch people get big cams and short shift because they dont want to/ cant rev.
I see a lot of silly things. After a while you grow to expect it.

Mostly I think its picking a camshaft before picking a goal and/or powerband. Gets them everytime.
treyZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2005, 07:44 PM   #42
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 1,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by treyZ28
I watch people pick big cams when they dont want to gear or stall their cars
I watch people get big cams and short shift because they dont want to/ cant rev.
I see a lot of silly things. After a while you grow to expect it.

Mostly I think its picking a camshaft before picking a goal and/or powerband. Gets them everytime.
AMEN brother!
people like the idea and illusion of a fast car more than actually owning one.
if you want a great fun daily driver wtih loads of torque and no need to rev high, get a small turbo. if you want a racecar, you gotta figure out exactly how the parts work together. but again, that would require plan and budget, none of that 'i got 200bux this month, what gizmo can i buy now?' hyped up reactions.

it's in the balance of the system, not in some specifications of the parts
RedHardSupra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2005, 08:16 PM   #43
9-Second Club
iTrader: (1)
 
Ed Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 3,330
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Rod
I agree that a Comp R lifter is important since you have to go up to a 977 to get the valve control you need. But, if you can reduce mass then a 918 would be enough to get the job done, and hence still work with the stock lifter. Of course, there is something to be said for the reduced ammount of lash in a CompR.
Who's is "our" Pro Stock engines? Which car?

Ed
Ed Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2005, 09:01 PM   #44
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
z-ya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: minneapolis,mn
Posts: 1,104
Default

Ferrea also makes the sodium filled exhausts.
z-ya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2005, 09:09 PM   #45
TECH Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by treyZ28
I watch people pick big cams when they dont want to gear or stall their cars
I watch people get big cams and short shift because they dont want to/ cant rev.
I see a lot of silly things. After a while you grow to expect it.

Mostly I think its picking a camshaft before picking a goal and/or powerband. Gets them everytime.
The way I see it, about 80% of engines get the "wrong" cam: 50 % because the owner's just gotta have one from "the bottom of the page" (where the really big cams reside), and another 30% that really can use a cam in this general range, but don't get exactly what they need because the cam companies have dumbed-down the LCAs, E/I duration splits and relative lifts on many of the big (catalogued) sticks to reduce the negative effects of too much cam, in an effort to save the first 50% from their own bad judgement. This leaves the rational 10% who select the correct "small" cam for their application and the fanatic 10% who ignore the catalog and order up exactly the lobes and LCAs their engines need from the 9,000 profiles that aren't even in it.
MadBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 06:47 AM   #46
TECH Fanatic
 
treyZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBill
The way I see it, about 80% of engines get the "wrong" cam: 50 % because the owner's just gotta have one from "the bottom of the page" (where the really big cams reside), and another 30% that really can use a cam in this general range, but don't get exactly what they need because the cam companies have dumbed-down the LCAs, E/I duration splits and relative lifts on many of the big (catalogued) sticks to reduce the negative effects of too much cam, in an effort to save the first 50% from their own bad judgement. This leaves the rational 10% who select the correct "small" cam for their application and the fanatic 10% who ignore the catalog and order up exactly the lobes and LCAs their engines need from the 9,000 profiles that aren't even in it.
camshaft pride
treyZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 07:46 AM   #47
TECH Fanatic
 
Old SStroker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,979
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBill
The way I see it, about 80% of engines get the "wrong" cam: 50 % because the owner's just gotta have one from "the bottom of the page" (where the really big cams reside), and another 30% that really can use a cam in this general range, but don't get exactly what they need because the cam companies have dumbed-down the LCAs, E/I duration splits and relative lifts on many of the big (catalogued) sticks to reduce the negative effects of too much cam, in an effort to save the first 50% from their own bad judgement. This leaves the rational 10% who select the correct "small" cam for their application and the fanatic 10% who ignore the catalog and order up exactly the lobes and LCAs their engines need from the 9,000 profiles that aren't even in it.
I agree, but maybe the 80% is low and the 10% is high. Very few of that 10% group are able to select the "correct" valve events themselves, so relying on an engine designer is a good idea. My observation is that the folks with the least "engine ego" are the most receptive to having someone else choose their cam. Some of the most knowledgeable gear heads admit they need help choosing cams, and are happy to pay for the work. I define them as not having a large "engine ego".

OTOH, I have observed folks who have purchased a custom cam designed for their application reject the cam and never install it because when they saw it, or measured it, they decided it wasn't "custom enough", whatever that means. That's "engine ego" to an extreme. Ironically, the same grind, in an identical situation gave the results both customers wanted. One guy was pleased, one never knew what he missed. Guy #2 probably went back to the "bottom of the page". More power to him! (irony intended).
Old SStroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 12:08 PM   #48
TECH Addict
iTrader: (4)
 
ShevrolayZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,319
Default

I'm trying to get into that 10% . Maybe I need pick some brains in the truck forum lol.

Are any of you guys willing to comment on my "help me pick a cam" thread. I'd really appreciate it

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/405758-low-wear-cam-help-me-pick-one-please.html

TIA!
ShevrolayZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 12:18 PM   #49
TECH Fanatic
 
treyZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old SStroker
I agree, but maybe the 80% is low and the 10% is high. Very few of that 10% group are able to select the "correct" valve events themselves, so relying on an engine designer is a good idea. My observation is that the folks with the least "engine ego" are the most receptive to having someone else choose their cam. Some of the most knowledgeable gear heads admit they need help choosing cams, and are happy to pay for the work. I define them as not having a large "engine ego".

OTOH, I have observed folks who have purchased a custom cam designed for their application reject the cam and never install it because when they saw it, or measured it, they decided it wasn't "custom enough", whatever that means. That's "engine ego" to an extreme. Ironically, the same grind, in an identical situation gave the results both customers wanted. One guy was pleased, one never knew what he missed. Guy #2 probably went back to the "bottom of the page". More power to him! (irony intended).
heh. i understand cause and effect of LSA, IVO, IVC etc etc... but I dont think Id be very good at choosing my own cam.

What you desribed reminds me of mechanical engineers trying to do a mechanics work. Just because you understand it doesn't mean you should be doing it.

The replacement air conditioning unit at my fraternity was expensive as was the labor, since we just doubled it. Or so i've heard. I'm not a fan of finances and budgets. Most signing credit card bills and hoping for the best come the 30th!
treyZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 03:05 PM   #50
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Thread Starter
 
J-Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright
Who's is "our" Pro Stock engines? Which car?

Ed

Sorry, thats an old,old post. I need to go back and cite my sources in it. That particular section of the post came from an article by David Reher of Reher-Morrison.

EDIT: I tried to go edit the post, but its almost 20K characters long. It was done with the old software, so you can't edit it. I need to split the post, etc.. insert a post, etc... So, anyhow, understand that ther eis info in there from David Reher, David Vizard, some of my own posting, and perhaps stuff from others I didn't spend a lot of time checking to see whoa ll I cited. Sorry for any confusion.

Last edited by J-Rod; 11-08-2005 at 03:12 PM.
J-Rod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 03:18 PM   #51
9-Second Club
iTrader: (1)
 
Ed Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 3,330
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Rod
Sorry, thats an old,old post. I need to go back and cite my sources in it. That particular section of the post came from an article by David Reher of Reher-Morrison.
.
Don't know who you are, or where you work. Thought maybe you worked for a Pro Stock engine builder. I have a friend that runs NHRA Pro Stock (Really struggling lately), and I have also known David for close to 30 years.

Last edited by Ed Wright; 11-08-2005 at 08:20 PM.
Ed Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2005, 10:19 PM   #52
Ric
TECH Enthusiast
 
Ric's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Blairsville, GA
Posts: 555
Default

Y'all, this is some DEEEEP stuff!!! And I like it.

I understand this was aimed at people who want a nasty cam with stupid lift and all, but I'd like to know if 918s would be sufficient for a mildly cammed(if upgraded at all) LS1. I love the whole design concept of the beehive spring, and may spring for a set(no pun intended) in the future. With a stock or mildly hotter cam, say nothing over 224*/.600", would I need to change lifters out as well, or will OEM pieces do fine?

Excellent read, by the way.
Ric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 10:14 AM   #53
Staging Lane
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 95
Default

Too many times I see people shy away from solid lifters--I work as a dyno tech(engine dyno)on occasion and can adjust a set of valves pretty quick.The time between adjustments on an ls engine are not too frequent.J-Rod since you put alot of thought into valvetrain,what do you think about those hydra-rev kits that AFR makes?Also,I noticed that builders use stud girdles past a certain point.Shaft mount rockers have also been something I've been thinkin about.I'm looking to get an extra 500 rpm of power and to spin the S/C faster making more boost.Going to 7000 rpm on a daily basis,with long term reliability.....how hard could that be?
speedz06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2005, 11:38 AM   #54
TECH Senior Member
 
PREDATOR-Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 14,632
Default

And everyone thought I was nuts when i promoted light effective valvetrain mass with 918's.
Good to see this is comming to light.

BTW Katech makes 2.00 & 2.10 intake and 1.55 exhaust hollow valves, $575 for a whole set.
Guess what is going on my AFR 225's and my future 427?

http://www.katechengines.com/street_...tail.php?id=13
PREDATOR-Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 10:28 AM   #55
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
 
TwoFast4Lv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
Posts: 9,994
Default

Great read!

I agree FAR to many people get the wrong cam and are absolutely set on it! They have to get the nastiest sound and latest name in there car. Very few times would I used the cam a customer has picked for there car. Heck they are driving the thing every day in Seattle rush hour traffic(which is only rivaled by LA and NY at the moment)!

They all want to make huge peak numbers and have no idea what the "Under the curve" power is. Then complain when they can not tune it to run well and that it has "fitt's" in traffic or has to much cam surge.

Nice write up!
TwoFast4Lv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 04:35 PM   #56
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
 
white2001s10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois
Posts: 1,851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFast4Lv
Heck they are driving the thing every day in Seattle rush hour traffic(which is only rivaled by LA and NY at the moment)!
Don't forget D.C.


Question for anyone who may have a good idea:

Could using 1.85 rockers increase the lift rate to a point that the stock lifters may not handle?
ref:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...95#post3882295
white2001s10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 08:41 PM   #57
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (2)
 
Lasershop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gold Country California
Posts: 566
Default

I did not read every post but I would like opinions whether you are a believer in a rev kit or not.
Lasershop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 09:43 PM   #58
TECH Resident
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: K-W, Ontario
Posts: 845
Default

Rev kits make power. Ask my friend Tom who installed a stud girdle and rev kit.

If I recall, 23 HP at peak RPM with both, and the curves look pretty.
Adrenaline_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 10:16 PM   #59
TECH Fanatic
 
treyZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Default

Not sure if it (I?) was mentioned-

but people also seem to think more hp = more fast.

Taking Torque curve X and moving it up 2000rpm will yeild you more power and slower track times unless you back that engine with gear.

always nice seeing a high hp, 8000rpm with factor gears to save gas
treyZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 10:56 PM   #60
TECH Resident
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: K-W, Ontario
Posts: 845
Default

That's a given, but a rev kit wont shift the curve.

It will improve power across the board.

Anything to help valve control will augment power curves.
Adrenaline_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brand New PAC-1218 Valve Springs (set of 16) erikthegoalie Parts Classifieds 9 03-10-2017 05:21 AM
Review: Comp Cams New Conical Valvesprings for LS Engines KCS Generation III Internal Engine 41 02-17-2017 11:31 AM
PSI Valve Spring Kit ls1king000 Parts Classifieds 0 02-05-2016 09:45 PM
F/S New in the box PAC 1218 Beehive Valve Springs doww301 Parts Classifieds 2 01-04-2016 12:24 AM
Installed Valve Spring Height high impact Generation III Internal Engine 8 08-06-2013 01:11 PM


Tags
555, 7000rpm, adjusting, beehive, big, hydraulic, ivo, lotscom, lsa, morrison, optron, powered, reher, roller, spintron, valves, vbulletin, xe

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 PM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send