How do NASCAR engines make 750+HP?
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,295
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From: VA
Originally Posted by Zzambucca
Nascar engines are very efficient engines, between the cam timing, and alot of R&D in headers/exhaust scavenging. They are limited to carb size, and they make alot of power with a small carb. I had a friend that worked at a nascar team engine shop. They dyno'd one of the engines with my 1050 CFM Braswell Dominator, and it only gained 15 HP across the board. For almost double the airflow capability, it wasn't a huge gain in power.
They are limited to carb size , but as everything else thats been exploited throughout the engine to optimize it...carb is no different..for ex. a 380 cfm carb can be made to flow damn near 750 cfm,,, Part of the reason restrictor plates where in place...alot of my personal engine is based off a nascar engine, without the killer head and bigger bore they use..I actually run a solid roller ,thats similiar in spec to the solid flat tappets cams they run on short tracks... what would throw alot of people for a loop is for 8800-9500 rpm the cams are not as big as one would think as far as duration is concerned...but there again efficiency is what those engines are all about...
Originally Posted by Joe Overton
They can but they usually stay in the mid 8 range on short tracks , mid 7's on long..
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by 93LS1RX7
Huh? They are spinning to 9500+. That is why nascar is limiting the gear so that they can NOT spin that high. Watch the telemetry they are still well over 9000rpm.
Unrestricted engines at Martinsville were just abut 9000 or a tad more on the cars which had telemetry. They also had a 4500 rpm band, so I suspect power peaks weren't as high as tracks with a 1500 rpm band.
Restrictor plate engines ("plate motors") are run in the low 7's for a lot of reasons, but mainly because airflow is severely restricted by the plates. Of course they are only used at Daytona and Talladega. The plate chops about 300-350 hp off the open engines which operate in a 300 rpm band or less when at speed. When/if a current car ran at Daytona with an unrestricted engine, the max speed gets up to around 230 or so. The plates (and some aero things) keep the speeds just shy of 200, someone's magic not-to-be-exceeded figure.
Carbs are the basic 850 (or maybe 830) 4150 series but they flow LOTS of air. That's not really a big restriction.
My guess is that there are a number of different shaped torque/power curves for the different tracks (with open engines), especially when the rpm range varies so much.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2005
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When we ran IRL back in the early nineties.
We had between 900-1,100 rwhp on 3.5 liter. Depending on whether it was a, "whipple (qualifying motor) or a 500 mile motor."
If the driver, let it idle less than 6,000 rpm when stopping for pit change it would die.
For all of you that think you are running a lot boost, mind you we were restricted to 58 lbs.. This was over twelve years ago.
Real, "Professional," race teams play and pay serious $$$$.
You want to win with the big boys, you better bring your A+ game, have some major support and some big cubic dollars.
Although there are no certified published figures. An F1 team, takes about 30-100m to run a year and is by far the most expensive series.
We had between 900-1,100 rwhp on 3.5 liter. Depending on whether it was a, "whipple (qualifying motor) or a 500 mile motor."
If the driver, let it idle less than 6,000 rpm when stopping for pit change it would die.
For all of you that think you are running a lot boost, mind you we were restricted to 58 lbs.. This was over twelve years ago.
Real, "Professional," race teams play and pay serious $$$$.
You want to win with the big boys, you better bring your A+ game, have some major support and some big cubic dollars.
Although there are no certified published figures. An F1 team, takes about 30-100m to run a year and is by far the most expensive series.
Last edited by IB Jason; Apr 30, 2015 at 05:11 PM.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,979
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by BUYAMERICAN
Although there are no certified published figures. An F1 team, takes about 30-100m to run a year and is by far the most expensive series.
Last edited by IB Jason; May 1, 2015 at 11:56 AM.
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FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
NASCAR engines actually have dished pistons to see 12 to 1 with their tiny chambers. They have virtually no friction and they have near perfect cylinder seal. They have awsome manifolds both intake and exhaust and the heads are extensively developed in every way they can be. The valvetrain is where it's at as far as the newer found power allowing breathing at higher and higher rpm every year. The make in the 8xx horsepower range with all brands now and they have a whole lot of money and really smart people to find more.
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
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I thought they had 16:1 compression. For Chevys, a derivation of the SB2.2 head. Lots of work on the combuston chamber, ports, intake, and exhaust. Individual cylinder ignition timing (check the MSD site for info). Jesel or T&D rockers with big ratios, very light, TI valves, very, very aggressive cams (fresh springs all the time, even with oilers, dry sump pulling close to 20psi vacuum (instead of a breather the have a relief to prevent to much vacuum), around 45psi oil pressure with tight clearences and thin (5-20, 5-30) synthetic oil,very light rods (steel and around 500gm I think, or at least the old qualifing rods where), light pins, etc.
The last 50-100 hp comes from little details in assembly, clearences, ports, combustion chamber, and tune.3-5hp may not change a lap time much, however it can be the difference between making a pass and not making a pass.
The last 50-100 hp comes from little details in assembly, clearences, ports, combustion chamber, and tune.3-5hp may not change a lap time much, however it can be the difference between making a pass and not making a pass.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2005
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F1
http://www.fastmachines.com/archives/f1/001603.php
Hmm. Inflation.
Ferrari had the huge budget. Schmacher is supposely the highest paid athlete in the world.
Champ and IRL are fraction of this. Like 30M to my knowledge. Although I have not been in the scene for years.
Yes, to guy that asked about IRL. Took out F/I a long while back.
This year I believe 2.4 N/A. The rules change so much, they are driving the costs the moon. The cars keep going faster and faster, so they keep trying to slow them down.
EG. The C6R has two restrictors with opening the size of a quarter in each tube.
I cannot remember, butI think it was Champ, that they tried to run on Daytona. The drivers were pulling to many g's to be considered safe. Going unconcious in a car. 5g's is the norm.
http://www.fastmachines.com/archives/f1/001603.php
Hmm. Inflation.
Ferrari had the huge budget. Schmacher is supposely the highest paid athlete in the world.
Champ and IRL are fraction of this. Like 30M to my knowledge. Although I have not been in the scene for years.
Yes, to guy that asked about IRL. Took out F/I a long while back.
This year I believe 2.4 N/A. The rules change so much, they are driving the costs the moon. The cars keep going faster and faster, so they keep trying to slow them down.
EG. The C6R has two restrictors with opening the size of a quarter in each tube.
I cannot remember, butI think it was Champ, that they tried to run on Daytona. The drivers were pulling to many g's to be considered safe. Going unconcious in a car. 5g's is the norm.
Originally Posted by Old SStroker
For the bigger players, I believe you are WAY low. Top budgets may be 4-5+ times your 100mil.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
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For the teams that don't built them the engines are usually leased, I believe with a don't open rule. The engine builders buy there parts in fairly large batches since they may go through 40-100 (or more) rods & pistons/week.
Originally Posted by BUYAMERICAN
When we ran IRL back in the early nineties.
We had between 900-1,100 rwhp on 3.5 liter. Depending on whether it was a, "whipple (qualifying motor) or a 500 mile motor."
If the driver, let it idle less than 6,000 rpm when stopping for pit change it would die.
For all of you that think you are running a lot boost, mind you we were restricted to 58 lbs.. This was over twelve years ago.
Real, "Professional," race teams play and pay serious $$$$.
You want to win with the big boys, you better bring your A+ game, have some major support and some big cubic dollars.
Although there are no certified published figures. An F1 team, takes about 30-100m to run a year and is by far the most expensive series.
We had between 900-1,100 rwhp on 3.5 liter. Depending on whether it was a, "whipple (qualifying motor) or a 500 mile motor."
If the driver, let it idle less than 6,000 rpm when stopping for pit change it would die.
For all of you that think you are running a lot boost, mind you we were restricted to 58 lbs.. This was over twelve years ago.
Real, "Professional," race teams play and pay serious $$$$.
You want to win with the big boys, you better bring your A+ game, have some major support and some big cubic dollars.
Although there are no certified published figures. An F1 team, takes about 30-100m to run a year and is by far the most expensive series.
on the rule change thing, is it good or bad for nascar?
Last edited by IB Jason; May 1, 2015 at 11:56 AM.
i follow various forms of racing of all types. between NASCAR with carbs and F1 with 1/2 billion budgets, its gotten out of hand for the most part. what has really impressed me is the various off road racing, rally, Dakar, Baja. i like motorsports where a hammer and duct tape are used.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 265
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We were running two Ferrari 333 SP Lemans cars in 97' at 5M. Worked well, could get sponsers to cover the rides.
Then Mercedes came with four cars and 60M. Mecerdes money goes a little futher. They have a huge R&D department, their own track, etc., etc..
Then Toyota came in with 100M. The F500 Company sponser that was going to sign with us, "You have to be kidding."
What could we say?
Then Mercedes came with four cars and 60M. Mecerdes money goes a little futher. They have a huge R&D department, their own track, etc., etc..
Then Toyota came in with 100M. The F500 Company sponser that was going to sign with us, "You have to be kidding."
What could we say?