Yes exactly. It makes one wonder why no one has done it before.
So far everything I've seen is with all 8 coated.

 

I suggest to alternate the pistons, cylinder to cylinder. Not bank to bank. The reasoning is crankshaft twist could be an issue if one whole bank produces more power. Would that effect the results? I think it could possibly create an imbalance..

 

Yes they are called EGT or O2 sensors, this is what we have done. So in retrospect you are going to do the exact same thing we have done now for 10+ years, and duplicate all the testings that over 40 Nascar builders have done. Hmmm, sounds like we tested it right now doesnt it???

J

 

Bank to bank seems to make more sense as far as temperature distribution and checking each bank with its own wide band.
I may need to borrow your (KVU's) wide band later this year sometime because I don't have two (yet).

 

If you did one bank at a time, and then removed the coating and re-ran the test, then YES you did!

 

Exactly that is my point, we have been building engines for forty years, and collectivly with the builders we have there is a combined 120 years experience. One worked for Lingenfelter back in the hey day of them being the top dogs in the Camaro, Firebird market. Richard Maskin, well you can look up his credentials, and Paul Hoskins, been building everything for 20+ years. Prior to us using coatings, we ran motors without coatings. Then as coatings become something "experimental" we tried them, and somewhat liked the results, and ran with and without coatings. After extensive testing, we came to the realization of what they did for us. Preperation and application is the key to how the coating will work, not just what the coating is. I havent ever seen the Techline stuff be a good long term lasting product, but hey it is marketed good and the "magazines" says it works, so it must right.

Here is a direct synopsis of the Dow product, it is DC2, Darts high temperature highly reflective heat barrier. Enhances flame propagation, reflects more heat into the combustion chamber and off piston tops, piston rings, and lands. Ideal for high temperature-heat reflective-insulative application. Combustion chambers, valve faces, exhaust ports, intake manifold bottoms, brake calipers-pads-piston, turbo housings, down pipes, etc.

You couldnt possibly think we and all these other engine builders are ignorant enough to have done this without comparing the results with and without??

I mean if they were not smarter than the average Joe, then we could all race and beat guys like Warren Johnson and Greg Anderson, oh and I am not throwing around names, I have personally met, and hung out with these guys, been drinking with Jeggy, Larry Dixon, and Tony Pedregon, both Larry and Tony are married to family friends. SO I have some knowledge, no I am not a scientist, and wont claim to be one, but rather a normal guy who builds engines for myself, and works for Richard Maskin, and have had the fortunate oppurtunity to get to know and learn from all the guys listed above.

Our science lab is a machine shop, with three style of flow benchs, two dynos, multiple styles of race cars, and an endless list of fellow engine builders who help test and exchange information all the time..

Several large LS engine builders send us lots of pistons, turbo housings and header setups to coat with these thermal barrier coatings.

J

 

I recently spoke to a guy who dynoed (of all things) a highly modded Saab. He had Dart coat his pistons and header. It was a dyno session, then tear down, parts sent out - sent back, reinstalled and redynoed. Result was a 43 HP gain! The time difference was 1 week between dyno sessions with similar temps outside. Just an example, take it or leave it.

 

Dart331Stroker,
Some people are on here to just waste time arguing over things because they have nothing better to do. They want proof, but they don't have the functional knowledge or expertise in the field to understand the variables involved. I agree a scientific test will not *always* provide evidence that something works, and I'm sure that there probably is evidence somewhere that proves that they do. I also agree a home experiment with spray paint quality application and a home oven isn't going to show the same results as the professionals. That being said, for those that are actually interested in seeing some coatings instead of reading a pointless argument, here are a few pics of my coatings from Polydyn in TX for my 383 build. Heat rejection coatings on piston tops and combustion chambers, anti-friction/heat rejection on intake runners, and piston skirts.

 

In your wording it is obvious that you don't even know the procedure for application, so your comments are worthless. It looks to me that you are simply patting yourself on the back for money well spent... or so you hope.
I have some polydyn coated pistons in my garage right now, and one will get tested soon. It was professionally applied, so if the test fails, you'll have to reach for another excuse as to why yours is going to work in your engine.

Another thing. Knowing a bunch of great guys that often get together for B.S. sessions and have always had fast cars is in no way as credible as test data, for which sadly is not to be found in these posts.
I'm sure if great people were doing great testing, then it shouldn't be too hard to dust off the papers and show the exact conditions of the testing along with the resulting data.

 

Once either of you determine how the tests will be done, have you considered
the volume of the ceramic coating and the affect on compression?

Closing up the quench height by applying the coating is going to alter the expected readings.

If you are looking to control the results, it might be wise to deck the piston
to keep the compression equal.

 

I know that white2001s10 is mostly concerned w/ thermal barrier coatings - but on a side note with oil shedding coatings - the only test you need is a oil shedding coating coated connecting rod and some slightly oily fingers. It is like trying to hold an eel!

 

I have a direct question that requires a direct response. How do you KNOW what it's like to try and hold an eel? If that is all the proof you need to believe then I'm quite suprised. Now, if you said the piston had no scuff marks after xxx miles, then it would make me think....

 

The arguments just keep getting better and better.

 

I have taken a ton of stuff to Omar over the years and the DART coatings are the only way to fly. The benefits far out weigh the up front cost in my opinion.

 

the problem then isn't the existance of proof, but the availability. to people like us, it might just not be available in the completeness that we'd like. I do agree with your questioning of real proof, but as much as it took for you to question what other people did not, i think it takes a little more to see the entire picture. why would you expect a business to reveal it's testing procedures in completeness?? it's a business, not a university.

anyway, i'm not knocking on you. matter of fact i applaud your stubbornness, but i think some of it was unneccessary though i'm not going to elaborate. looks like you'll just have to try and redo the same experiments that other companies have done because you need the complete proof. good luck.

 

I forget the original question, but I have never coated my piston tops because one engine shop told me the coating burns off. I have no idea, maybe someone could chime in on that?

 

Yeah, depending on the tuning and combo. Your engine would erase that coating. Bet jet hot header coating stays looking great on a car like yours, too. Even if the coating stayed on there, what did it prove?















These guys on ls1tech are behind the times.

 

what a bunch of posers

 

your engine shop is wrong, and my guess is because they are only familiar with the do it yourself approach of using home spray on coatings and heating the stuff in your oven. If you can go back and read this forever growing post, you will see where I posted how we do coatings, how they are prepped and why they work. Here is a test bed that will exceed anything you or I will ever do, Jack Roush's NASCAR program uses our coatings on the piston tops, for alot of reasons. One it helps them make more power, the engine lives in the lean environment and ever changing race conditions they face, and it keeps the carbon off the pistons. The day of a Cup car getting DQ'd due to too high of compression is over, there use to be a day when they started a race with lower than allowed compression, but due to carbon buildup they would be at maximum allowed compression, now with the coatings they can run the motor at exact compression and still be fine at days end.

As for friction coatings, here is a simpe anology, if it is slicker and therefore has less friction against the thrust wall, doesnt it jsut simply make sense that it works, doesnt require a rocket science to figure out. Just like it doesnt to know that an eel is slippery. Sometimes I think people on here or on forums in general just like to complain and stir up more crap. Sure if the piston is slicker and has less friction against the thrust wall, well then obviously there will be less "scuffing".

As for testing, I agree why does any company have to detail or present anything to the common public about their testing procedure. It wouldnt matter anyways, I could tell you whatever you want to hear, and you guys would argue it anyways. Its funny that a company who is established in this industry and proves things on a daily basis has to prove anything to somebody, prove to me we are wrong, prove to me it doesnt work. I dont care anymore, I am done with this $hit, and done with trying to provide FREE information and expertise. Go waste someone elses time!!!!!!

Thanks to the LS1tech board!!!

 

i'm glad your here! i would like your professional opinion if you have experience with hpcoatings. what do you think of their work? i already had my combustion chamber and piston coated on my motorcycle and so far i have no problems after 2000 hard miles with a working a/f tune(it's carburetorated so it could be way off). i'm just curious becuase i seem to be one of those people always looking for that little edge in performance(or longevity aka anit-wear).