Intercooling taken to the next level
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by MadBill
The AC intercoolers I have seen (e.g. Ford's prototype) use it to chill a mass of water, then use the water in the cooling core. This way, the system can be charged with surplus coolth (an HVAC Engineer's technical term for the opposite of warmth 
) during normal operation, then used to extract far more heat (although only for a short time) than if using only the available AC output.
) during normal operation, then used to extract far more heat (although only for a short time) than if using only the available AC output. TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 740
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Interesting. Seems mostly useful for drag racing or emergency highway speed. Or would it actually be useful on a road course? (regarding how quickly it cools the water, how long it takes the water to circulate/heat up, and how much heat it manages to strip out along the way)
I haven't had time to google it yet, I admit. I do plan to though, as soon as I get some free time.
I haven't had time to google it yet, I admit. I do plan to though, as soon as I get some free time.
Originally Posted by chuntington101
this is it guys! i want to know how the hell the WRC teams are doing it! lol
if you wanted really cool intakes then you could run this system i have been thinking of!
run a air to air intercooler to get rid of most of the heat! then run it into a water to air cooler fed with iced water like you would in a drag setup! this way you would easly get below ambient temps!
but then you would get heat soak! so you could run the ac system (or a seperate one run of a standalone battery) to cool the water down again! this would work for a few min i would think but then you would have to cool it back down again!
but wold give you well below abiemt temps!
Chris.
if you wanted really cool intakes then you could run this system i have been thinking of!
run a air to air intercooler to get rid of most of the heat! then run it into a water to air cooler fed with iced water like you would in a drag setup! this way you would easly get below ambient temps!
but then you would get heat soak! so you could run the ac system (or a seperate one run of a standalone battery) to cool the water down again! this would work for a few min i would think but then you would have to cool it back down again!
but wold give you well below abiemt temps!Chris.
I'd recommend a double wall stainless enclosure (use an expanding foam in between the layers or set it up to have a slight vacuum between the layers for the best insulating properties) and a vent ran out the highest point of the vehicle.
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Montana, USA
This is done frequently in the forced induction rotary world. The Aussies have had it down pat for years. (referring to the dry ice). The combination of dry ice and acetone gives the coldest temperature easily achieved, some -170C or thereabouts.
Originally Posted by LS_RX-7
This is done frequently in the forced induction rotary world. The Aussies have had it down pat for years. (referring to the dry ice). The combination of dry ice and acetone gives the coldest temperature easily achieved, some -170C or thereabouts.
How does combining it with Acetone drop it another 90*c?
Liquid Nitrogen boils at -320*f/196*c
If gettin -170*c is as simple as adding Acetone to dry ice I wouldn't have paid all that money when I was doing Cryogenic processing.
The Acetone as far as I know (I could be wrong here I guess) would be nothing more than a medium to transfer the temperature of the Dry Ice. I recommended alcohol because it evaporates and is available almost anywhere.
Last edited by Cheatin' Chad; Apr 9, 2006 at 06:28 AM.
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TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
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just something about these supper low inlet temps! does anyone suffer with fuel freezing and what about the water in the air????
also how long would a "normal" dry ice sysrem last running say a 1000bhp engine????
Chris.
also how long would a "normal" dry ice sysrem last running say a 1000bhp engine????
Chris.
Originally Posted by chuntington101
just something about these supper low inlet temps! does anyone suffer with fuel freezing and what about the water in the air????
also how long would a "normal" dry ice sysrem last running say a 1000bhp engine????
Chris.
also how long would a "normal" dry ice sysrem last running say a 1000bhp engine????
Chris.
The amount of time it woudl last would be heavily dependent on the size of the container and the outlet temps of the supercharging device.
With a turbo or (poorly named) centrifugal and a fairly standard sized AtoW charge cooler you should be able to get a couple of runs off. I can't say for certain without testing.
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Montana, USA
Same principle as adding salt to ice to create sub-0*C from 0*C ice. I can't recall if it is exactly -170*C or not, but I know it is something semi-close to that figure, at the least. I have reference materials, and will most gladly look it up for you when I get back home, and have access to them. Unfortunately, if you wait on me, you will be waiting till early June for proof. My apologies.
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 73
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Has anyone heard anything more on this? It seems like an interesting concept. I wonder how accelerating two compressors would affect turbo lag and throttle response. If weight wasn't an issue, this would probably be incredible on a twin-charged car similar to VAG's new 1.4L. Would the second half of the second charger need to be shaped like a turbine housing and wheel, only with lighter/thinner fins? I would love to see this implemented, or maybe even try it myself someday. Does anyone have any other ideas of taking air to below ambient temps using pressure changes? That way, it wouldn't be a one time deal. I'm thinking more for running a street car on a road course, where you have to have a system that will work well for 10 mintues or so of continuous use.
Originally Posted by LS_RX-7
Same principle as adding salt to ice to create sub-0*C from 0*C ice. I can't recall if it is exactly -170*C or not, but I know it is something semi-close to that figure, at the least. I have reference materials, and will most gladly look it up for you when I get back home, and have access to them. Unfortunately, if you wait on me, you will be waiting till early June for proof. My apologies.
I'll do some looking of my own as well but if you do remember to gather up your info I would love to see it.While I do know a fair bit I claim to be no expert and love to learn about this stuff.
Thanks!
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Montana, USA
No problem. As I said before, I apologize for the long delay. My books are at home, and I won't have access to them for some time (several weeks, not hours.) But rest assured, as soon as I do get to them, I know where to look, and will post or PM the reference.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
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thanks LS_RX-7, do you have any links to guys running this set up?? or to more info on the subject?????
bryson i have still not heard any more on the over presurising thing! really want to know more about it though!
one idea for a road course would be to run a large intercooler to get the temps down and then a large tank of iced water and a charge cooler to further reduce temps. should reduce temps below ambient and wouldn't be too difficult or costly. also thanks to the intercooler the iced water would last longer than running just the chargecooler on its own.
has anyone got anymore info on the cryocooling thing???
thanks Chris.
bryson i have still not heard any more on the over presurising thing! really want to know more about it though!
one idea for a road course would be to run a large intercooler to get the temps down and then a large tank of iced water and a charge cooler to further reduce temps. should reduce temps below ambient and wouldn't be too difficult or costly. also thanks to the intercooler the iced water would last longer than running just the chargecooler on its own.
has anyone got anymore info on the cryocooling thing???
thanks Chris.