LTSpeed

Also a very expensive setup that will never make it to the LS1--at least if we want to be able to afford it or work on it.

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

The LS1 is an awesome motor, that is simple, and well designed/evolved. It isn't anything special.

BMW makes, and has made some of the best internal combustion engines in their history. High tech nowadays? Yes, for a good reason. They are taking ideas, and putting them to use. Making them more efficient, run smoother, run longer, etc.

The LS1 was based off the old small block design. Well thought out, and rethought in all the right places. Taking the original idea of the SBC, and evolving it once again, turning things up one more notch.

This cars/engines weren't made for the average Joe to wrench on in his back yard. In fact, that's impossible for the most part. Impracticle for you (I'm assuming) but not for the guy with some money in his pocket. Someone who is into a high quality car, with high tech features. They don't sell as many of them as they do for no reason.

Every time I see someone mention BMW on here, somebody instantly shoots them down. With some stupid remark about their LS1> all, etc. For cheap money, (respectively) it's an awesome motor we can all afford. It takes to mods like a fish to water, and the aftermarket is growing everyday. For years we had never dreamed of making 500RWHP, and driving it around as a commuter!

Two engines, that aren't even comparable, placed in cars which clearly are not comparable.

The General is too cheap, and too American to out think the Germans with this type of stuff. They've gotten better in the past couple years. Look at the LS1.... Finally a composite intake! Light weight, very little heat soak, etc. BMW and Mercedes have been using these ideas forever. Simple, effective, and well engineered.

It's about time they caught on, but they sure as hell aren't at the pinnacle of design. The Germans will always be state of the art, and very high tech. We all know thats what they do best. But it does cost a pretty penny.

DavidNJ

Actually, its debatible whether the German's are state of the art. Maybe in diesels. The Japanese, specifically Honda, seem to have the gas engine edge. Which is not to say BMW hasn't built great engines. But among German car builders, only recently has MB, VW/Audi, and Porsche caught up. Right now, Porsche is just introducing Honda Civic technology on their high end models. Prior to its latest engines, which are roughly equivalent to similar Nissan engines, MB specialized in recycled boat anchors under the hood (anyone what a rough, low power, three valve twin plug V6?)

LTSpeed

I guess you haven't seen Honda's first diesel. The German's not only didn't think of how to make one so efficient (a production TSX got >78mpg combined city/highway, then went 130+mph on the track), they couldn't manufacture it even if they had the blueprints.

I'll slam modern-day German engineering because they are so short on original ideas. All they do is pull out an old one and keep adding gadgets to it until it works. Look at the VW "W8"--it's nuts! The BMW M5/M6 engines are just as ridiculous. The Carrera GT is the same--over engineered and nearly impossible to drive. Sure, they work. But does the performance increase justify the expense and complexity in them? No way. Gimme a Z06 any day.

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

I personally feel you're way off base here. But to each their own, I added in some information here, because there was some misinformation before hand.

jic

iTrader: (3)

vtack! powerful honda

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

Now if they could just add reliability to the equation...the latest tech fads arent always an improvement in that area.

kpforce1

iTrader: (9)

Seems like I remember an LSx base Cadilac engine that use some sort of variable timing control... don't remember where I read it though.

njn63

"Why use 2 parts when we can use 10?" -German Engineering

joecar

German machinery is very precise and over-engineered, well beyond the realm of DIY hot rodders; compare to the SBC which has bigger tolerances, has a large available selection of cranks, rods, heads, cams..., does not require special tools or procedures, uses ordinary motor oil, has abundant information available, is very simple and reliable, is cheap and easy to run, is very easy to fix, is very easy to hot rod, and can be made "high-tech" using any of the various EFI kits on the market.

German machinery certainly is an engineering marvel, but is very impractical our real world.

Edit: and it seems late model GM cars get better MPG compared to German cars.

RedWS6 00

A BMW seems to be a status car over here, everyone wants one because they think they will be better than every one else, well it seems 1 in 5 cars are BMW, they are so common they are not special. I guess their technology is good, but I just wont buy german, all sales reps seem to have a gernam car, bwm, VW, Merc's, when every you see a car in the wrong lane or coming off the free way too late its a gernam car. I think you need to be an absent minded driver to drive one, never seen one driven well not causing potential accidents. Sorry just a bit off topic, just my .02

motorman

the viper engines use rhodes roller lifters. GM is working with 2 cams,one above the other, in the V-8 block to get VVT.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

where did you get THAT from?

Rescue Ranger

iTrader: (10)

My ham salad sandwich has VTEC, **** kicks in hard makin its way through my twisties.

Camaro_Z28

NEWS FLASH!!! GM already has VVT in the new 6.2L in the 07 yukon Denali. Look into it if you dont believe me. Its pretty much identical to the LS1.

motorman

it was on GMs powertrain website about a year ago and contact at the place they machined these blocks also told me about it.

1CAMWNDR

iTrader: (21)

Here ya go. All the info you could want on hydraulic solenoid valve actuation:
http://www.sturmanindustries.com/mai...eActuation.htm

gen3performance1

gm uses aform of this called displacement on demand.

gen3performance1

if you have access there are some new idl broadcasts about it.

menudoman

damn....beat me to it. i had a teacher mention rotary valves to me back in 99. i kinda hoped it would have caught on more by now. seems like a really good idea, especially with the cam phasing technology thats out now.

rotary valves seem like a way better solution to me than SOVs. ridiculous rpm, ridiculous flow, and the valve assembly is constantly turning and doesn't heat soak like a poppet valve setup does. i don't pretend to be an engineer, but seems like a pretty good setup to me. but for one reason or another, it's never seemed to catch on.