View Poll Results: Which do you feel to be superior in a racecar/track/roadcourse application?
Hydroformed Aluminum Frame
79
62.20%
Hydroformed Steel Frame
48
37.80%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll
Aluminum VS Steel Frame
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Originally Posted by 98_1LE
For a competition road race car, I worry that the aluminum frame would not age well. Not only the repeated stresses from running the car hard on sticky tires, but impacts with FIA curbing, other cars, etc. would stress the aluminum quickly.
But since I am not an engineer, could well be wrong. I doubted an aluminum panhard bar on my F-body, but it works just fine even on big sticky tires and high cornering forces.
But since I am not an engineer, could well be wrong. I doubted an aluminum panhard bar on my F-body, but it works just fine even on big sticky tires and high cornering forces.
thanks Chris.
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The catch with Aluminum is to make sure it doesnt go beyond its elasticity limits. If I remember, it has a smaller range of deformation in general.
Eh, some 7075 T6 Al is only like 10% "weaker" than Chromoly 4130 on the ultimate... but the Al will weigh less and have a higher limit on where it will deform. But as for welding it, be sure to follow proper guidelines, you want to make sure you bring the metal back up to the mech. properties.
Eh, some 7075 T6 Al is only like 10% "weaker" than Chromoly 4130 on the ultimate... but the Al will weigh less and have a higher limit on where it will deform. But as for welding it, be sure to follow proper guidelines, you want to make sure you bring the metal back up to the mech. properties.
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Originally Posted by treyZ28
Carbon Fiber 
also there is alot of money being spent looking into ways or using fiber renmforced plastics. these would be miles cheaper than the likes of carbon fiber (which has to be built up layer by layer often by hand) and will be nearly as strong!
so it might not be that much longer till you have stressed plastic body pannels!
thanks CHris.
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Originally Posted by chuntington101
just read an article on plastics on cars. turns out one hell of a lot of car body work is now termoplastics. its great cos they bend rather than dint or crak, are cheap to make, are light and dont rust!
also there is alot of money being spent looking into ways or using fiber renmforced plastics. these would be miles cheaper than the likes of carbon fiber (which has to be built up layer by layer often by hand) and will be nearly as strong!
so it might not be that much longer till you have stressed plastic body pannels!
thanks CHris.
also there is alot of money being spent looking into ways or using fiber renmforced plastics. these would be miles cheaper than the likes of carbon fiber (which has to be built up layer by layer often by hand) and will be nearly as strong!
so it might not be that much longer till you have stressed plastic body pannels!
thanks CHris.
Nissan is already doing it. the front fan box thing is a stressed member and it is plastic.
Composites will make their way into a lot of stuff. We are doing some pretty insane stuff with CMM (carbon ceramic matrix). Basically uses a ceramic in place of expoxy. Incredible strength and temperature capabilties.
As far as frames go, lots of cars are running carbon mono stuff.
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Originally Posted by treyZ28
Nissan is already doing it. the front fan box thing is a stressed member and it is plastic.
Composites will make their way into a lot of stuff. We are doing some pretty insane stuff with CMM (carbon ceramic matrix). Basically uses a ceramic in place of expoxy. Incredible strength and temperature capabilties.
As far as frames go, lots of cars are running carbon mono stuff.
Composites will make their way into a lot of stuff. We are doing some pretty insane stuff with CMM (carbon ceramic matrix). Basically uses a ceramic in place of expoxy. Incredible strength and temperature capabilties.
As far as frames go, lots of cars are running carbon mono stuff.
the big problem with carbon fiber is its just to work intensive! you have to lay up all the stuff indavidualy and then "cook" them.
if they could get the same tech in to these thermoplastics (the ones that never go hard) it would be great. you could mass produce them more like you do with steel. also if you could get the fiber renforment then they would be strong to!
hmmmmmmmmm carbon chassis are soooo good! shame they are reserved for the supercars and race cars at the monment!
Chris.
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Yeah, working carbon sucks.
I saw the price of carbon fairings (sport bike) and set out to make my own.
After I successfully made my first one, I promptly bought a produced set. Fortunately, the goal was expeirence/knowlege, not cost savings
I saw the price of carbon fairings (sport bike) and set out to make my own.
After I successfully made my first one, I promptly bought a produced set. Fortunately, the goal was expeirence/knowlege, not cost savings
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i suggest u take aluminum made as it prevents rust build up due to changing weather condition.The same applies to billet grilles of cars.
Originally Posted by Sean Collins
Aircraft are built out of alloys that we do not have acess to and use alot of bonding techniques that we dont have acess to. Riviting is the standard fastening in non bonded applications while bolting is avoided. Still at that airframes are very prone to cracking and a routinely inspected for cracks.
However...all of our new aircraft (Raytheon) have fuselages made from a proprietary Carbon fiber process. much lighter and MUCH stronger. However they will not tolerate any damage and repair is difficult. And very succeptable to water intrusion. Seems evey material is still a trade off. Good engineering of either material is probably more a key factor.
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Originally Posted by treyZ28
It's 6061, but it's not the same 60160 you buy at your local metal shoppe
Military aircraft cant use composites. Too fast, surface temps get too high.
Military aircraft cant use composites. Too fast, surface temps get too high.
for example, if a bird hits a wing and puts a huge dent in it they can easly tell that it hit something and the wing is damaged, then look ito it further if they feel they need to. you cant do this with carbon, it would have to be sonic tested.
now imagine this in a militery situation.....
thanks Chris.
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Originally Posted by OKcruising
I thought the new F22 makes extensive use of carbon composites?
thought i saw a TV show that said the whole of the top of the wings was CF. but thought that might have got changed when in production.
sorry treyZ287, dont quiet get you there. "cos? composites......."
there was some reserch into cermaics and polymers for turbine blades. dont really know if it ever took off (pardon the pun! lol). my dad was a designer for the RB211 unit fitted to the 747 and he said they where working on them back then!
Chris.
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I stand corrected- certain areas of the body of plane do have it. The body is still largely metal based. The carbon ceramic matrix's primary use is well...other stuff. The structural parts aren't composites. Some of the "skin" pieces are.
I'm 100% sure the turbines aren't a composite; they are single crystal alloys (nickel based stuff, I assume). Really cool, just dont drop them
I'm 100% sure the turbines aren't a composite; they are single crystal alloys (nickel based stuff, I assume). Really cool, just dont drop them
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Originally Posted by treyZ28
I stand corrected- certain areas of the body of plane do have it. The body is still largely metal based. The carbon ceramic matrix's primary use is well...other stuff. The structural parts aren't composites. Some of the "skin" pieces are.
I'm 100% sure the turbines aren't a composite; they are single crystal alloys (nickel based stuff, I assume). Really cool, just dont drop them
I'm 100% sure the turbines aren't a composite; they are single crystal alloys (nickel based stuff, I assume). Really cool, just dont drop them
also worth noting that Ford's WRC rally team had to use a ceramic turbine blades to cope with the MASSIVE egts they where seeing on the stage! 1,000 degrees C was the norm for them.
thanks Chris.
Originally Posted by chuntington101
just read an article on plastics on cars. turns out one hell of a lot of car body work is now termoplastics. its great cos they bend rather than dint or crak, are cheap to make, are light and dont rust!
also there is alot of money being spent looking into ways or using fiber renmforced plastics. these would be miles cheaper than the likes of carbon fiber (which has to be built up layer by layer often by hand) and will be nearly as strong!
so it might not be that much longer till you have stressed plastic body pannels!
thanks CHris.
also there is alot of money being spent looking into ways or using fiber renmforced plastics. these would be miles cheaper than the likes of carbon fiber (which has to be built up layer by layer often by hand) and will be nearly as strong!
so it might not be that much longer till you have stressed plastic body pannels!
thanks CHris.
this may be a shock to you then.
the front fenders, and doors of 4thgens are fiberglass reinforced plastic.
and the hood of my 82 camaro was SMC.. Sheet Molded Composite.
almost every new car on the road uses plastic bodypanels of some sort.... ever notice how most 4thgens are pretty straight except for the back part, even when they're 10+ years old?
thats because the outside of the car is all plastic (urathane bumpers, plastic doors/fenders) except for that rear tub.. thats the only area that can be dented.
same with vettes.. they've been made out of fiberglass/plastic/composite ever since the first vette in the 50s.