okls1

I have heard that most MEs are gearheads which makes me think I am in the wrong major. I thought about changing to physics major because I like my physics class, but not sure how that would turn out career wise. Tonight in my C++ class I was just thinking how engines make so much more sense then computers to me... I am going to meet with an advisor to talk things over, and try to figure all this out. Thanks for the advice once again and I will keep an eye out for possible communications classes along the way.

Not4Racin

Hey guys:

Not one mention of Chem E. ?????

Once a sub-branch of ME started at MIT about 100 years ago, lots of labs, flow calculations, hands-on....what's not to like? Except for the crushing workload.

Just a suggestion.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

#1 engineering major for gearheads (read as: SAE student members) when I was in school was Mechanical Engineering. #2 was Aerospace Engineering. I can't recall there being a #3--possibly EE, but we usually ran all of them off because their wiring kept catching on fire. Ironicly during my Formula SAE years, our composites expert was an ME, and our engine building guru was an AE.

BigBronco

iTrader: (2)

From going through the school and classes in ME this post can not be any more TRUE!

Tough through the hole thing. It is one of the HARDEST majors in college, but the payoff and knowledge you leave with is second to none. Fluids and statics are a bitch. Diff Eq is not a breeze either (To some it is) but just keep your learning cap on for sure!

echo3313

iTrader: (3)

Ever think about a MET degree? It mechanical Engineering technology and it is a lot more hands on. same basic stuff with a little less math. It is more application than theory. Only difference in job field is you have to wait 7 years instead of 4 to get your P.E. It is my major and one of my classes in a university is welding, you don't get any more gearhead related than that...

And i couldnt agree more on the SAE, i am starting next semester because i have applied for internships with a lot of major automotive companies and on every application it says that it is a plus.

PSU_Engineer

I don't know about your school, but I am a BS MET from Penn State University.
You're above statement is not wrong however it's flawed. I am approved for and studying for my PE exam now; I graduated in 2002. An MET degree from an accredited university. (I touched on this before in this thread, page 3 bottom) will allow you the same benefits as a four year BS Mechanical Engineering degree. I have friends that graduated BSME from Penn State, and we had similar classes. They had less "hands on labs" where we tested the theories. I never was one for theory work, as I prefer to do test and apply the theorys with my own hands, not on a piece of paper so Mechanical Engineering Technology fit me perfectly. As far as Penn State's programs, the difference between the two is negligible.

Oh, and up here in Pennsylvania the major doesn't mean ****, until you get those two letters at the end of your name. You are not considered to be an engineer until you pass the PE exam.

Tony

usdmholden

I'm a ME, but frankly, the future of hot rodding is in EE and software / CS. Alot of people can do automotive type garage work, and plenty of people understand flow and force and power, and many can fabricate stuff, even without any formal education. If you want to do something in the automotive aftermarket that most others can't or won't, learn FPGA design and CAN bus networking and electromechanical control systems. That's where the automotive future is.

edit - also, I realized, it seems like alot of the points being made in this thread are because people like to build custom stuff. Custom items are typically one off, using an informal design process, with a minimal cost oversight. This is really not what engineers do. If this is what people like, then become a fabricator, because that's what fabricators do. For example, engineers don't design a turbo system to just build one or two for a total of $6000 each. They design with the intent of building say 10k units, or some other large number, with a cost goal of say $3000 each. My point is, it's not as hands on as one may want, and definately not as exciting.

Also, most non-construction engineering jobs (and even that's being threatened now by India) I'm seeing are now going to China and India. Basically, choose some profession where you can support yourself in a non engineering role, or be prepared to start your own services based business.

Old SStroker

Interesting thoughts.

I am of the opinion that electronics are used to control the mechanical elements of an engine or most other 'hardware', but they don't actually pump the air or convert it to torque and rpm. Won't we still need folks to design, develop and test the mundane hard parts that do the work? Therei s only so much 'controlling' you can do to 'hotrod' a given engine. The person who improves the hardware's ability to pump air, etc. is going to have the more powerful engine assuming he gets the electron person to optimize the controls.

In order to effectively convince the hardware to pump more air faster, you probably need a good understanding of things physical. That's where the ME comes in. OK, so I'm a very prejudiced ME. 40 years ago, at the dawn of the computer age when an IMB 360 would fill a small trailer, the EEs said it was all over for us MEs. Granted there is a higher % of EEs, CEs, etcEs today, but Ma Nature still pumps air by the same ol' rules. Fortunately engines, and the parts in them still play by her rules.

As my son said early on in theis thread, "...people either have an mechanical understanding or they don't, you almost can't teach people to 'get it'." Unfortunately I have known some degreed MEs who just 'don't get it'. IMO, those folks picked the wrong major.

One need not start just a services oriented business to be sucessful. How about hundreds of "one offs" that are similar but different? Even if it's PCM software it's a product, not a service.

My $.02.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

usdm: all of that is true if you're designing for mass production, which is what a lot (most? I don't know) of engineering jobs are for. If you're in an R&D position, there's a lot more one-offs. Building prototypes is a lot of fun--I do that with software.

And a note for ME's, EE's, etc: if you're a computer geek, learn C and/or C++ and try to pick up a couple of Computer Science classes. Writing code can be great fallback if you don't find something you like in your engineering. About half of the software developers I work with weren't CS majors.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

Good point. In the context of enigne control systems, look at all of the components: PCM, sensors, valves, wiring, switches, connectors, etc. EE's did the circuit board in the PCM, and maybe some circuitry for a sensor or two. Everything else was likely designed by MEs. The software running on the PCM was probably done by a mix of CS's, EE's, and ME's--with a lot of the algorithms coming from MEs.

usdmholden

When I said services based business, I was really meaning engineering services based business. I guess I was vague. If you look at the rate at which manufacturing, and engineering, and technology are being offshored, in 20 or so years, in my opinion, most small US engineering based business will have to be service business to the large global manufacturers. They would be similar to the current engineering services businesses that exist today. Test houses, design houses, etc. Not much manufacturing, mostly thier products would be intellectual property. Although, engineering salaries are catching up very fast in Asia, so who knows I could be wrong. The recent statistic at my employer is that really good engineers in India are commanding US$80k per year. They are in the lead engineer type roles, and they don't get the same health benefits and safe workplace type protection we get, but still, the average will have to catch up eventually, given the supply and demand over there.

I'm saying that the electronics frontier is the future of "hot rodding" only because most of the new advances in technology seem to be on the EE side, and also, a vehicle's electrical functionality is far less exploited than the vehicle's mechanical functionality. And also I'm being very liberal with the definition of "hot rodding" I don't think it's all over for the MEs, or even that the MEs are in decline, I just think there's more room to grow on the electrical side. Think about all features in cars now, most have electrical controls. For example. What do the "black boxes" really do, and if they are data loggers (most people seem to think they are), why can't we reflash them, integrate them to aftermarket hardware, and pull down the logged data for our own use over a USB connection to say analyze a pass at the drag strip? Given that CAN bus is mostly standardized, why hasn't someone made custom hardware to putput instant CAN bus data which can be logged via laptop. Also, why even use the USB connection I mentioned above, why not transmit CAN bus via wireless Bluetooth or 802 protocol from a simple plug in transciever plugged into Flash scan plug under the dash? Why don't we have electronic drag launch control which takes gyro input and sensor input and continuously modifies the front and rear shock damping via electronics. Why don't we have add on zone climate control controlled by aftermarket hardware which uses existing CAN bus networking to operate HVAC valving which already exists from the OEM? These are just examples of things that could be done today, given technology we have today, but are not being done at all, because people who understand how to do it are not doing it. "Hot rodding" in it's most liberal definition has not yet passed power generation and handling. There will always be a need for companies than can make a car perform mechanically, but that is being done now and people are good at it now, and given the current lack of electronics support, and given the fact that future will generate even more electronics requirements, the largest portion of industry growth will have to be on the electronics side. This is my opinion of course.

And I understand the statement your son made. I graduated from college with a guy who couldn't figure out how to use an oil drain pan (the complicated kind that requires you to move the plastic funnel from the recessed carrier, and thread it into position over the hole) but somehow he got a job at Pratt & Whitney designing turbine engine blades (???).

okls1

There will always be a need for MEs granted, but the future cars will probably not run on fossil fuels. Cars are already heading to hybrid and alternative sources. I watched a show the other day saying that in 30 years pretty much every car would be electric powered, and have even better performance then cars today... How much of this future prediction is true is questionable at best. I think the SAE group sounds like fun, and I will be joining next year to try it out. I am going with CE due to the fact that computers will be EVERYWHERE in the future and I would like to get a head start into the industry while I still can. Granted outsourcing is a problem, but as stated above with demands of increasing pay over there, less jobs should be outsourced. Not to mention the pure volume of computers in the future can not all be outsourced.

OKcruising

Eh, I just made the switch from EE to ME.

EE is a gamble in the grander scheme (personal opinion, what I feel long term wise)
That field's technology evolves at a mindblowing pace. It won't be a specialization of a particular field, but a general encompassment of the underlying principals that will serve you better in this one. However, you would be in great demand (it's really weird, but there is a lack of engineering talent supply), academic climate in the U.S. isn't that hot, so you'd have an advantage.

I view ME as a more "stable" approach. The knowledge gained in this realm literally "physically" underpins EE. So there will be always be a demand for this. There is always a need for new better materials to boot. Go this route if you love physically tinkering with stuff.
Either way, stay in an engineering degree! Don't cop out to poli sci.

threadjack:
Hey okls1, i take it your a golden hurricane ?(what year? you might know a couple of my engr. buddies up there) You go to Hallett out of curio?

DEE99TA

iTrader: (7)

I just want to note this. I work for a major Semiconductor company. As far as I know, they still do not recognize ETE as an engineer like an EE. My buddy in college dropped out of EE and when into ETE. At our school it was much easier. But he had trouble getting hired on since they considered him the same as some that goes to a 2yr ITT tech type program. I did twice the amount of bread boarding and soldering as he did. But that may not be the case everywhere in every discipline.

Some programs are very academic. Meaning, they focus a lot on the theory. Some programs do a good job in teaching you how to work in the real world. Taking factors such as complexity, cost, reliability, part availability. We are seeing that now with some people we hire. They do not know how to do anything outside of what is taught in a book.

Degrees and grades get you a job. How you perform and continual learning dictates your success the rest of your career. How you communicate, manage projects, work in teams in often time stressful situations is important. How do you react when you are in a situation and have no idea how to start? Being successful in that task is why you have the title of engineer.

PE doesn't mean squat in this industry. Some people get it for pride. But I have to be honest that most managers don't seek that. They want someone who can come in and do the job and make them look good.

pist0lpete

iTrader: (3)

Intersting things you have mentioned here especially to as I am an MET major at Oklahoma State. I feel the same way about the hands on experience and I love it. I feel like when I get out in the field I will have a better a idea how to tell the people under me how best to do their job rather than sticking specificly with the design aspect (once again the hands on approach). If you don't mind my asking what are you employed doing and what does it entail?

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

I did the same thing many years ago. After being in the field for 16+ years, I don't regret it one bit. ME's rule the industry that I am in (oilpatch). I did *ok* in EE classes, it just wasn't something I enjoyed. I enjoyed my statics classes alot more and decided to make the switch.

ME is a degree that has so many choices of what you can do with it. Forget about salaries. After 10+ years of experience, you can command just about any salary that you want. Just pick a number and convince your employer that your worth it and thats all there is to it..

brandtdavis

MET from Purdue here. More automotive guys in my classes. We have MET 426 - Engineering Fundamentals of the Internal combustion engine. ECET 385 is also an MET elective -automotive electronics. We had a partnership with Subaru and had 4 test cars we used for the 385 class.