hmm, mixing gas into the nitro to play with its % is something i hadnt thought of. it would have the advantage of an infinite amount of mixture/shot sizes. i suppose i would set it up just like a nitrous setup: wot switch, pressure switch, window switch..etc.. before you brought it up i was thinking of useing it just like a dry n2o system.

alchemist- i wouldnt put rc fuel into my tank because of the oil thats in it. especially on efi cars with O2's.

big-den- it would be a self contained system like a nitrous system.


now in terms of tuning, i would think itd be on the simple side given the right math. ie: how much the oxygen would lean the mixture (about another 20% from wha tive read), how hot it would get which would determine timing retard, and a/f based of gas/nitro mix given i go that route. someone here DID do a spreadsheet on how nitro effects a/f but its buried under all these posts. i suppose i could use one of hp tuners tables as a "boost retard" table that would retard timing based on the map readings. tuning it will deffinately require a very detailed hand. i would suspect that you could gain almost 30% more power for the same size shot.

 

HotRod did an article about using nitro. The results are here:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ane/index.html

 

The amount of oil would be perfectly okay. When you use a fuel as "dry" as that, you would want some type of lubrication mixed with it anyway. Lots of people mix 2 cycle oil in their gas when running very high octane race fuel to keep it from eating all the seals and o-rings in the fuel system. It wont hurt it and is actually a good idea, imo.

 

close, but not exactly what im thinking. im not thinking of using it as the main fuel. athough, 15% and about 50hp... god knows what 100% through the right jet would do.

 

From someone who has been heavily involved in Fuel racing, and have tried half these ideas, just do yourselves a favor and leave it alone.

Nitro is a diffent animal than you have ever seen. Less than 30% just smells good and hurts parts, no power... Have you ever seen nitro coupes? 30% and cant keep up with 5 y/o Promods.

Nitro+Suspension= Bad Idea

If you use enough nitro to extract any performance potential your motor/health will pay dearly.

There's a reason stuff like this has been tried and given up on-it wont work or is not a very economical approach.

I could not fully explain on an internet forum the intricacies of CH3NO2.
But once you understand it (sorta) you see why it is used as sparingly as it is.

And by the way-never put oil of any type in the fuel-it has an octane rating of 0. detonation city. Seals and o-rings are cheaper than pistons.

 

see my thing with that is, nitrous used to be thought of taboo in that same way. also i wouldnt use it in the actual fuel tank like everyone is thinking. it would be injected the same way as nitrous at WOT. i have never seen anyone do it in that way. wouldnt you think a motor that used a nitro fuel to run would have more issues than one that had it sprayed in, in a sort duration?

 

RX7 guys have have been deleting their factory OMP (oil metering pump) and mixing 2stroke in with their gas for years without issues. I've done it myself as well, and when I run pure C-16 I always run a little bit of 2 stroke to help keep things lubricated. Typically I'll use 1 ounce per gallon of C16 and have had no problems with detonation. I've done quite a bit of dyno testing with that mixture in the tank and not seen a problem.

Charles

 

Nitrous is differnt from nitro. Nitro will not do what your hoping.

Gas burns a whole lot faster than nitro, youll either encounter extreme cyl prssures or melting exhaust valves.

As far as the fuel delivery, you dont want nitro to be atomized.

As far as the oil not causing detonation, I should have specified that motors on the ragged edge hate it more.

 

Nitrous is just an oxidizer that has predictable results when mixed with fuel. The problem with nitro is that is not well-understood when used as a fuel.

 

and will never be if people dont try new things to figure out its little secrets. not so much me but in general. reason being, we all know teams that use it regularly will never say what they really know.
if you were to use it as what im describing, how would you go about it? somehow introduce it into the fuel system when activated, spray it, seperate injectors?

 

In a street vehicle it is impossible to control the volume req'd at certain load because the load is too variable. Plus the cyl pressure produced during proper combustion of a certain % will be to high for a modern street-motor. If I could find a graph that showed cyl pressure rise in relation to piston movement vs gas/alky you would see what I mean. Any amount that would improve performance would destroy the motor.

 

Which is what this link posted earlier show's (I was looking all over for that. About 4 days worth and couldn't find that link. Thanks Keith)

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ane/index.html

Basically, the more they detonated, the more power they made, but they were also hurting the motor at the same time. **EDIT** Not the same article I thought it was. There is another one on the web somewhere.

Why is it that most vids you see of crew cheif's in the pit's after a run, are almost always looking at the bearings? Because they take a **** load of abuse and tell what the engine is doing.

 

I agreee im pretty sure they dont have a WOT life over like 1 min lol

 

they have a wot life of maybe 5 secs, 6 at wot theyd be out of fuel.

 

Most of the time thats true, Ive seen them go 10 secs WOT... two passes with no problems.

 

Hell, our first year in IHRA Top Fuel we only hurt one motor in 12 races and won 2.
Thats probably God on our side though.

 

what team are you with?

 

Yeah i think they use a gallon and a half a sec at WOT

 

Foley/Lewis

 

The S.C.R of top fuel engines is ~7.0:1. Stochiometric for nitro is 1.7:1.