Nitromethane as a power adder?
12-07-2006, 11:29 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by DarricksZ28
That's a good idea. How do you plan to add the extra fuel while it's spraying? Or would you mix it with the nitro? I hadn't thought about that. You could start at a 50/50 mix of nitro/methanol with something like a .012 jet and see what happens. Work up your jet size from there based on your data collected.
alchemist- i wouldnt put rc fuel into my tank because of the oil thats in it. especially on efi cars with O2's.
big-den- it would be a self contained system like a nitrous system.
now in terms of tuning, i would think itd be on the simple side given the right math. ie: how much the oxygen would lean the mixture (about another 20% from wha tive read), how hot it would get which would determine timing retard, and a/f based of gas/nitro mix given i go that route. someone here DID do a spreadsheet on how nitro effects a/f but its buried under all these posts. i suppose i could use one of hp tuners tables as a "boost retard" table that would retard timing based on the map readings. tuning it will deffinately require a very detailed hand. i would suspect that you could gain almost 30% more power for the same size shot.
12-09-2006, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Wnts2Go10O
alchemist- i wouldnt put rc fuel into my tank because of the oil thats in it. especially on efi cars with O2's.
12-09-2006, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith
HotRod did an article about using nitro. The results are here:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ane/index.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ane/index.html
12-12-2006, 12:45 PM
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From someone who has been heavily involved in Fuel racing, and have tried half these ideas, just do yourselves a favor and leave it alone.
Nitro is a diffent animal than you have ever seen. Less than 30% just smells good and hurts parts, no power... Have you ever seen nitro coupes? 30% and cant keep up with 5 y/o Promods.
Nitro+Suspension= Bad Idea
If you use enough nitro to extract any performance potential your motor/health will pay dearly.
There's a reason stuff like this has been tried and given up on-it wont work or is not a very economical approach.
I could not fully explain on an internet forum the intricacies of CH3NO2.
But once you understand it (sorta) you see why it is used as sparingly as it is.
And by the way-never put oil of any type in the fuel-it has an octane rating of 0. detonation city. Seals and o-rings are cheaper than pistons.
Nitro is a diffent animal than you have ever seen. Less than 30% just smells good and hurts parts, no power... Have you ever seen nitro coupes? 30% and cant keep up with 5 y/o Promods.
Nitro+Suspension= Bad Idea
If you use enough nitro to extract any performance potential your motor/health will pay dearly.
There's a reason stuff like this has been tried and given up on-it wont work or is not a very economical approach.
I could not fully explain on an internet forum the intricacies of CH3NO2.
But once you understand it (sorta) you see why it is used as sparingly as it is.
And by the way-never put oil of any type in the fuel-it has an octane rating of 0. detonation city. Seals and o-rings are cheaper than pistons.
12-12-2006, 01:26 PM
#46
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see my thing with that is, nitrous used to be thought of taboo in that same way. also i wouldnt use it in the actual fuel tank like everyone is thinking. it would be injected the same way as nitrous at WOT. i have never seen anyone do it in that way. wouldnt you think a motor that used a nitro fuel to run would have more issues than one that had it sprayed in, in a sort duration?
12-12-2006, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AlkyInMyBlood
And by the way-never put oil of any type in the fuel-it has an octane rating of 0. detonation city. Seals and o-rings are cheaper than pistons.
RX7 guys have have been deleting their factory OMP (oil metering pump) and mixing 2stroke in with their gas for years without issues. I've done it myself as well, and when I run pure C-16 I always run a little bit of 2 stroke to help keep things lubricated. Typically I'll use 1 ounce per gallon of C16 and have had no problems with detonation. I've done quite a bit of dyno testing with that mixture in the tank and not seen a problem.
Charles
12-12-2006, 02:13 PM
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Nitrous is differnt from nitro. Nitro will not do what your hoping.
Gas burns a whole lot faster than nitro, youll either encounter extreme cyl prssures or melting exhaust valves.
As far as the fuel delivery, you dont want nitro to be atomized.
As far as the oil not causing detonation, I should have specified that motors on the ragged edge hate it more.
Gas burns a whole lot faster than nitro, youll either encounter extreme cyl prssures or melting exhaust valves.
As far as the fuel delivery, you dont want nitro to be atomized.
As far as the oil not causing detonation, I should have specified that motors on the ragged edge hate it more.
12-12-2006, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AlkyInMyBlood
Nitrous is just an oxidizer that has predictable results when mixed with fuel. The problem with nitro is that is not well-understood when used as a fuel.
if you were to use it as what im describing, how would you go about it? somehow introduce it into the fuel system when activated, spray it, seperate injectors?
12-12-2006, 05:59 PM
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In a street vehicle it is impossible to control the volume req'd at certain load because the load is too variable. Plus the cyl pressure produced during proper combustion of a certain % will be to high for a modern street-motor. If I could find a graph that showed cyl pressure rise in relation to piston movement vs gas/alky you would see what I mean. Any amount that would improve performance would destroy the motor.
12-12-2006, 06:38 PM
#52
Originally Posted by AlkyInMyBlood
In a street vehicle it is impossible to control the volume req'd at certain load because the load is too variable. Plus the cyl pressure produced during proper combustion of a certain % will be to high for a modern street-motor. If I could find a graph that showed cyl pressure rise in relation to piston movement vs gas/alky you would see what I mean. Any amount that would improve performance would destroy the motor.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ane/index.html
Basically, the more they detonated, the more power they made, but they were also hurting the motor at the same time. **EDIT** Not the same article I thought it was. There is another one on the web somewhere.
Why is it that most vids you see of crew cheif's in the pit's after a run, are almost always looking at the bearings? Because they take a **** load of abuse and tell what the engine is doing.
Last edited by Richiec77; 12-12-2006 at 06:54 PM.
12-16-2006, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by redline2k
To bad most of them don't make it down the 1/4 with out some kind of problem much less 5 miles.
two passes with no problems.
12-17-2006, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AlkyInMyBlood
Hell, our first year in IHRA Top Fuel we only hurt one motor in 12 races and won 2.
Thats probably God on our side though.
Thats probably God on our side though.
12-17-2006, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AlkyInMyBlood
they have a wot life of maybe 5 secs, 6 at wot theyd be out of fuel.
12-21-2006, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mcamp001
you would also have to run much higher compression, spark, and cylinder pressures to ignite the stuff
you can throw a lit match in a puddle of nitro and it won't ignite, needs compression. You can however, hit a puddle of it very hard with a hammer and make a nice bang
you can throw a lit match in a puddle of nitro and it won't ignite, needs compression. You can however, hit a puddle of it very hard with a hammer and make a nice bang