Adjustable thermostat discussion
Adjustable thermostat discussion I think an adjustable thermostat would be a worthwhile modification. I'm not sure how it would be designed but that would be fairly simple (DC stepper motor, adjustable valve, electronic controller for motor control based upon preset and coolant temperature)
Advantages:
Advantages:
- run hotter to extent oil life by driving off the water in the crankcase
- run cooler for better performace and reduced detonation
- Open the valve completly and switch on your electric fans for maximum cooling
I would think it would take too much money to manufacture when it is simple enough to just buy whatever temp thermostat you need for your app. Granted you don't get all of the benefits of above, but you get one for sure and most of another (take your pick). Not to mention, I'm not sure how long an electric motor would last being exposed to such hot temps for so long.
Banned
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Why build and fly a plane a mile when you can walk there now? It would be overcomplicated, cost too much, and break down to much. Thermostats now cost what three dollars? They work just fine. My car stayed cool in 90 degree rushour traffice with a waterpump with no bearings. Ideas like that are why we end up paying two hundred dollars to replace tail light assemblies rather than a twenty cent bulb.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Mefis
Originally Posted by squealingtires
I think an adjustable thermostat would be a worthwhile modification. I'm not sure how it would be designed but that would be fairly simple (DC stepper motor, adjustable valve, electronic controller for motor control based upon preset and coolant temperature)
Advantages:
Advantages:
- run hotter to extent oil life by driving off the water in the crankcase
- run cooler for better performace and reduced detonation
- Open the valve completly and switch on your electric fans for maximum cooling
Voila - your adjustable thermostat.
with increasing EPA mandates,i dont know why they dont use an electric valve controlled by the PCM to fine tune areas of need ,where as now the mech style leaves alot to be desired when it comes down to control and repeatability...
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On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 121
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From: Cleveland
Davies-Craig in Australia make an electric water pump that can be electronically controlled. You gut the stock pump and remove the thermostat. Some Ford guys have used these with good results, but I don't know of any LS guys that have tried one out.
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=47
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=56
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=47
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=56
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The thermostat would have to have an active control loop because the mechanical stat is always responding to water temp changes. There aren't many parts more reliable than a wax pellet thermostat.
I however like the spirit of the idea. Keep 'em coming.
I however like the spirit of the idea. Keep 'em coming.
Originally Posted by andereck
The thermostat would have to have an active control loop because the mechanical stat is always responding to water temp changes. There aren't many parts more reliable than a wax pellet thermostat.
I however like the spirit of the idea. Keep 'em coming.
I however like the spirit of the idea. Keep 'em coming.
Technically speaking: an adjustable thermostat for the automotive world is identical to most modern home thermostats --> Based upon temperature and a commanded setting the valve maintains a particular position.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: So.Cal.
I have thought about drilling/tapping the TS housing and inserting a bolt with locknut...
The end of the bolt would meet the end of the TS...
Turning the bolt in lowers the TS open temp, turning out ups the temp.
Leakage is a problem... if the end of the bolt were smooth, you can have a seal.
The end of the bolt would meet the end of the TS...
Turning the bolt in lowers the TS open temp, turning out ups the temp.
Leakage is a problem... if the end of the bolt were smooth, you can have a seal.
joecar,
What you are talking about could be done with a thermostat and is done for all kinds of pressure regulators for gases and liquids. For instance the standard GM and aftermarket fuel pressure regulators work in this way.
squeelingtires,
I understand your goals. However, for street driven vehicles, the thermostat is set up to regulate between about 180 and 190 degrees F for the reasons you mentioned initially for the hot condition. The cooler running thermostat (like some of the 160 degree units) that HyperTech and others sell would be OK for the summertime and terrible for the winter. How would you propose to control the thermostat? A switch inside the car, an adjustment screw on the thermostat or how. When would you want to go to the cool mode and when would you want to go to the hot mode?
Steve
What you are talking about could be done with a thermostat and is done for all kinds of pressure regulators for gases and liquids. For instance the standard GM and aftermarket fuel pressure regulators work in this way.
squeelingtires,
I understand your goals. However, for street driven vehicles, the thermostat is set up to regulate between about 180 and 190 degrees F for the reasons you mentioned initially for the hot condition. The cooler running thermostat (like some of the 160 degree units) that HyperTech and others sell would be OK for the summertime and terrible for the winter. How would you propose to control the thermostat? A switch inside the car, an adjustment screw on the thermostat or how. When would you want to go to the cool mode and when would you want to go to the hot mode?
Steve
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Originally Posted by squealingtires
Technically speaking: an adjustable thermostat for the automotive world is identical to most modern home thermostats --> Based upon temperature and a commanded setting the valve maintains a particular position.
The automotive thermostat is constantly regulating the flow of water to maintain its set temperature. Under low load conditions the thermostat will restrict the flow more to keep the heat in the engine metering the coolant that is allowed to leave.
Under higher load the flow increases via larger orifice to let more coolant to circulate through the system due to more heat being put into the system.
Teching In
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What if they make it into the PCM were there is an electronic controlled thermostat and the PCM adjusts timing and electric water pump to maintain it's most thermo efficiency. So engine will stay as hot till it detects detonation, then it will start by adjusting the temperature and timing till it reaches the thermo efficiency. This can be done in open loop mode....Nuno
Originally Posted by nfernandes
What if they make it into the PCM were there is an electronic controlled thermostat and the PCM adjusts timing and electric water pump to maintain it's most thermo efficiency. So engine will stay as hot till it detects detonation, then it will start by adjusting the temperature and timing till it reaches the thermo efficiency. This can be done in open loop mode....Nuno
Doing it via the knock sensors wouldn't really work...by the time you've detected knock, you are too late with something that is slow to react like the cooling system. That's why the PCM removes timing...that is nearly instantaneous compared to cooling the water/antifreeze mix in the engine.
While this idea has merit, you'd never sell it to the EPA. They would like your engine to run nice and warm so it pollutes less. It is only us hot-rodders out there that want our engines to run cooler for better performance. This would be strictly an aftermarket venture, and as soon as the EPA found out about it, they'd probably throw a ****-fit much like they did with O2 simulators.
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant
joecar,
squeelingtires,
I understand your goals. However, for street driven vehicles, the thermostat is set up to regulate between about 180 and 190 degrees F for the reasons you mentioned initially for the hot condition. The cooler running thermostat (like some of the 160 degree units) that HyperTech and others sell would be OK for the summertime and terrible for the winter. How would you propose to control the thermostat? A switch inside the car, an adjustment screw on the thermostat or how. When would you want to go to the cool mode and when would you want to go to the hot mode?
Steve
squeelingtires,
I understand your goals. However, for street driven vehicles, the thermostat is set up to regulate between about 180 and 190 degrees F for the reasons you mentioned initially for the hot condition. The cooler running thermostat (like some of the 160 degree units) that HyperTech and others sell would be OK for the summertime and terrible for the winter. How would you propose to control the thermostat? A switch inside the car, an adjustment screw on the thermostat or how. When would you want to go to the cool mode and when would you want to go to the hot mode?
Steve
Hot mode all the rest the time, just for the environmental factors and fuel economy and not to mention keeping the oil clean.
Originally Posted by andereck
No, its not. The home thermostat operates much like an electric fan switch. The home thermostat causes the furnace or ac to operate at a fixed speed until the temperature threshhold is reached and then it shuts off.
The automotive thermostat is constantly regulating the flow of water to maintain its set temperature. Under low load conditions the thermostat will restrict the flow more to keep the heat in the engine metering the coolant that is allowed to leave.
Under higher load the flow increases via larger orifice to let more coolant to circulate through the system due to more heat being put into the system.
The automotive thermostat is constantly regulating the flow of water to maintain its set temperature. Under low load conditions the thermostat will restrict the flow more to keep the heat in the engine metering the coolant that is allowed to leave.
Under higher load the flow increases via larger orifice to let more coolant to circulate through the system due to more heat being put into the system.
Originally Posted by squealingtires
I'd like to go into cold mode any time there is the added risk of WOT detonation (Nitrous, hot summer weather, bad gas, etc)
Hot mode all the rest the time, just for the environmental factors and fuel economy and not to mention keeping the oil clean.
Hot mode all the rest the time, just for the environmental factors and fuel economy and not to mention keeping the oil clean.
Somewhat off topic...are you the one around here running a 402 in the T/A?
squealingtires, Oil temps and coolant temps are not the same. They are related of course, but are not the same. Speaking from experience on my LT1, when fully warmed up (15+ minutes) my oil temps (read oil temps 
) are a full 40 degrees higher than my coolant temperature. The LT1 is no LSX, but I'd have to wager the oil temp to coolant temp matter would be the same: Oil temp always peaking higher than what your coolant temps are.
) are a full 40 degrees higher than my coolant temperature. The LT1 is no LSX, but I'd have to wager the oil temp to coolant temp matter would be the same: Oil temp always peaking higher than what your coolant temps are. 
Changing when the thermostat opens DOES NOT AFFECT THE ENGINE'S RUNNING TEMPERATURE!
The only thing it changes is how long it takes for the motor to heat up. I've explained this many times and no one seems to get it. The engine's temperature depends on the efficiency of the cooling system(the radiator, fans, settings, etc...) If you want to make your car have an adjustable running temperature, then run a low or no thermostat and somehow have adjustable fan settings. Doing that without pissing off the PCM may prove to be difficult.
The only thing it changes is how long it takes for the motor to heat up. I've explained this many times and no one seems to get it. The engine's temperature depends on the efficiency of the cooling system(the radiator, fans, settings, etc...) If you want to make your car have an adjustable running temperature, then run a low or no thermostat and somehow have adjustable fan settings. Doing that without pissing off the PCM may prove to be difficult.
Ferocity02,
I disagree with you. If a vehicle has a radiator with more than adequate cooling capacity and adequate airflow through that radiator, the thermostat temperature set point will determine the temperature around which the engine coolant temperature will regulate. The set point determines both when the valve in the thermostat will begin to open and close again. What you say would be true only if the cooling capacity of the radiator were inadequate for the BTU production of the engine in given ambient temperatures and operating load of the engine.
If what you say were true, no truck diesel engine would ever come up to normal operating temperature in the colder months.
Steve
I disagree with you. If a vehicle has a radiator with more than adequate cooling capacity and adequate airflow through that radiator, the thermostat temperature set point will determine the temperature around which the engine coolant temperature will regulate. The set point determines both when the valve in the thermostat will begin to open and close again. What you say would be true only if the cooling capacity of the radiator were inadequate for the BTU production of the engine in given ambient temperatures and operating load of the engine.
If what you say were true, no truck diesel engine would ever come up to normal operating temperature in the colder months.
Steve