Carb'd coil drive question.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Blue Springs, MO
Carb'd coil drive question. I have a LSx I am doing a blow thru on and was wanting to retain the coil on plug setup. Other than the MSD 6LS boxes are there any other ways to drive the coils. I would like to be able to run a MSD Digital 7 such as the 7535 or 7531. I wonder if MSD is gonna come out with a more performance based box to fill the void? Otherwise the only options I know of is the GM dist/timing cover conversion(I'm out on that idea) or fabricating my own belt driven distributor off the cam or crank since there is no kit available yet.
Thanks
Thanks
If you were willing to do a little work, you could use a megasquirt2 to provide MAP based timing with wasted spark with the stock triggering mechanisms. We may be able to help you more if you told us what features you were after such as MAP based timing, boost control, etc etc.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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From: Blue Springs, MO
Thanks for the reply! The electronic end is a little above my head so please bare with my ignorance.
I have a friend that will be helping me on that end of things and he has actually built a couple of Megasquirt systems also.
I would be basically looking for all the features a programable Digital 7 such as the 7531 would supply but additionally fire the coils. I am pretty set on a carb. I plan to make around 1500 with it with the 101mm I have. If you need anymore info please let me know. It doesnt matter weither I use the stock reluctor wheel and sensors or use a crank trigger wheel on the balancer. I can machine any custom stuff I may need to make it work.
Thanks!
I have a friend that will be helping me on that end of things and he has actually built a couple of Megasquirt systems also. I would be basically looking for all the features a programable Digital 7 such as the 7531 would supply but additionally fire the coils. I am pretty set on a carb. I plan to make around 1500 with it with the 101mm I have. If you need anymore info please let me know. It doesnt matter weither I use the stock reluctor wheel and sensors or use a crank trigger wheel on the balancer. I can machine any custom stuff I may need to make it work.
Thanks!
Well, you may end up getting better answers in the PCM forum but basically, you would hook up the MS2 to the cam and crank triggers, and use a hardware configuration that supplied 4 coil outputs, allowing the engine to fire in wasted spark with 4 2-post coils, or 8 individual coils charged and fired in tandem pairs. You would hook the MAP and air temp sensor up and create a custom timing curve based on MAP, RPM and air temp. Just leave the fuel injector leads unconnected. If you were going to seriously consider doing that, then I would suggest looking at the Spectre, which is MS2 based but has that exact functionality built in from the get go and would allow you to skip over the custom built Megasquirt.
The real question is, if you were going to go through the hassle and expense of hooking all that up, and you had to be in the software to set the timing curve anyway , why not hook up the rest fuel injection and save yourself the headaches of yanking the floatbowls off everytime you want to make a change? My guess is you will probably end up with a vertical belt driven distributor or that hideous timing cover that makes the LS1 look even more like a Ford
I would also check out FAST's eDist. I have no personal experience with it but I believe that it is designed to take signals from newer ignition systems and convert it in to a simpler configuration so that legacy ignition systems can work on that engine.
The real question is, if you were going to go through the hassle and expense of hooking all that up, and you had to be in the software to set the timing curve anyway , why not hook up the rest fuel injection and save yourself the headaches of yanking the floatbowls off everytime you want to make a change? My guess is you will probably end up with a vertical belt driven distributor or that hideous timing cover that makes the LS1 look even more like a Ford
I would also check out FAST's eDist. I have no personal experience with it but I believe that it is designed to take signals from newer ignition systems and convert it in to a simpler configuration so that legacy ignition systems can work on that engine.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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From: Blue Springs, MO
Thank you VERY much for your help so far. I'll have to do some looking into the MS2 stuff for this option.
I understand the advice about stepping on up to the fuel injection but my friends would make fun of me. If this type of system came within the cost of injection then it wouldnt be worth it wittout going all the way to injection.
I definetly will stay away from that hideous cast dist cover conversion.
Probably my best option would be building my own belt driven dist kit then. I was trying to avoid going to the Jesel belt to do so, but do have a few ideas brewing on a way around that.
Thanks again for your time so far!
I understand the advice about stepping on up to the fuel injection but my friends would make fun of me.
If this type of system came within the cost of injection then it wouldnt be worth it wittout going all the way to injection. I definetly will stay away from that hideous cast dist cover conversion.
Probably my best option would be building my own belt driven dist kit then. I was trying to avoid going to the Jesel belt to do so, but do have a few ideas brewing on a way around that.
Thanks again for your time so far!
Originally Posted by 96 Comp T/A
If you were willing to do a little work, you could use a megasquirt2 to provide MAP based timing with wasted spark with the stock triggering mechanisms. We may be able to help you more if you told us what features you were after such as MAP based timing, boost control, etc etc.
Last edited by lteone; Jul 26, 2007 at 03:19 AM.
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Fast has an eDIS box that will drive the LS1 coils from a crank and cam input. The standard eDIS won't do spark cut rev limiting, but the new XIM will. The unit is not waterproof or water resistant and needs to be mounted outside the engine compartment. For my money with the LS motor I'd get the MSD box as it is programmable and specifically designed for your application.
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i remember reading about some products in either gm high tech or chevy hiperformance magazines. You should write them and ask.
I think edelbrock also has a system for the LSx motors to run the ignition in a simple manner using the oem coil on plug and cam/crank sensors. I think there were at least 2 or 3 systems advertised.
I think edelbrock also has a system for the LSx motors to run the ignition in a simple manner using the oem coil on plug and cam/crank sensors. I think there were at least 2 or 3 systems advertised.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Blue Springs, MO
Originally Posted by andereck
Fast has an eDIS box that will drive the LS1 coils from a crank and cam input. The standard eDIS won't do spark cut rev limiting, but the new XIM will. The unit is not waterproof or water resistant and needs to be mounted outside the engine compartment. For my money with the LS motor I'd get the MSD box as it is programmable and specifically designed for your application.
I figured there would something out the there to work with the Digital 7 to fire the individual coils. I guess as Iteone(Scott) stated I'll have to resort back to a distributor to fire the cylinders with one coil along with the MSD box.
Hows about a billet timing cover with a distrbutor ran off the wet chain setup either directly off the cam or with a belt off the cam like MSD's remote setup?
Thanks-
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From: Texas, it's like your state, but better.
Sounds to me like you're looking at a jessel front drive dist, with an MSD dig. 7, and a single coil. I believe that wormboy was running a similar setup.
There are several ways to do what you are talking about, it just depends onwhat you are familiar with or just what you allready have. you can use a stock pcm and tuning software to completely calibrate your timing curve, and fire the stock coils. It seems to me that you are wanting to retain the dig. 7 since you're probably more familiar with it, and run the stock coils as well. That is something i've not seen done just yet, but i'd give MSD a ring, and see what they have to say.
I also was under the impression that the 6010 & 6012 boxes were laptop programmable??
There are several ways to do what you are talking about, it just depends onwhat you are familiar with or just what you allready have. you can use a stock pcm and tuning software to completely calibrate your timing curve, and fire the stock coils. It seems to me that you are wanting to retain the dig. 7 since you're probably more familiar with it, and run the stock coils as well. That is something i've not seen done just yet, but i'd give MSD a ring, and see what they have to say.
I also was under the impression that the 6010 & 6012 boxes were laptop programmable??
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Hi Jakey Snakey, what's up?
A MS2 could control a Ford DIS box running waste spark and the Ford coils. You would need a DIS wheel however and the module with the MS2 just sending an appropriate SAW signal to the box. I think I'd look at the XIM from FAST if you don't like the MSD setup. You'll need to call them for the "manual" to it however, its pretty thin info wise.
Personally I think the MSD is actually the more capable unit. They just won't make firmware to run it on a non LS crank signal, which makes it useless for my crap.
The XIM from FAST also has updated dwell control where the original wasn't really good for forced induction due to dwell programmed to go backwards with rpm. (eDIS)
A MS2 could control a Ford DIS box running waste spark and the Ford coils. You would need a DIS wheel however and the module with the MS2 just sending an appropriate SAW signal to the box. I think I'd look at the XIM from FAST if you don't like the MSD setup. You'll need to call them for the "manual" to it however, its pretty thin info wise.
Personally I think the MSD is actually the more capable unit. They just won't make firmware to run it on a non LS crank signal, which makes it useless for my crap.
The XIM from FAST also has updated dwell control where the original wasn't really good for forced induction due to dwell programmed to go backwards with rpm. (eDIS)
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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From: Blue Springs, MO
Originally Posted by andereck
Hi Jakey Snakey, what's up?
A MS2 could control a Ford DIS box running waste spark and the Ford coils. You would need a DIS wheel however and the module with the MS2 just sending an appropriate SAW signal to the box. I think I'd look at the XIM from FAST if you don't like the MSD setup. You'll need to call them for the "manual" to it however, its pretty thin info wise.
Personally I think the MSD is actually the more capable unit. They just won't make firmware to run it on a non LS crank signal, which makes it useless for my crap.
The XIM from FAST also has updated dwell control where the original wasn't really good for forced induction due to dwell programmed to go backwards with rpm. (eDIS)
A MS2 could control a Ford DIS box running waste spark and the Ford coils. You would need a DIS wheel however and the module with the MS2 just sending an appropriate SAW signal to the box. I think I'd look at the XIM from FAST if you don't like the MSD setup. You'll need to call them for the "manual" to it however, its pretty thin info wise.
Personally I think the MSD is actually the more capable unit. They just won't make firmware to run it on a non LS crank signal, which makes it useless for my crap.
The XIM from FAST also has updated dwell control where the original wasn't really good for forced induction due to dwell programmed to go backwards with rpm. (eDIS)
Thanks guys! I'll have Scott read all this and translate it to me.
''Vents'', I'll have to search put "wormboy" to see his setup. The very few belt drives I have seen were fabricated since Jesel or MSD doent sell the mounting kit that I have found at least. No problem there with mounting it either. I think I'd rather work out a deal off the wet timing setup though. I wasnt too sure what was involved with the "dry sump or redirectring the oil" requirement for the Jesel's dry belt drive timing setup.
Thanks-
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From: Texas, it's like your state, but better.
yeah, forgot to mention that, That car was a dry sump setup as well ;D +3k to the cost of going front drive dist. Having a hard time finding those underhood shots.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Blue Springs, MO
Originally Posted by Vents
yeah, forgot to mention that, That car was a dry sump setup as well ;D +3k to the cost of going front drive dist. Having a hard time finding those underhood shots.
Yea I'm out on the dry sump deal.
I found an over head shot of the guys engine but nothing detailed. Thanks- 