Battle of the Merge Collectors
I wish at least one of those collectors had a ball and socket end to it so it would be easier to connect and seal than the slip over that is offered. I know they would eat up at least another inch of ground clearance, and that if I wanted it, I could always install them myself, but it would be nice if I didn't have to do it myself.
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,092
Likes: 11
"If that's not a Tri-Y header, I don't know what is lol."
IMHO a Tri-Y header is suppose to have "somewhat"
tuned lengths of primary and secondary pipes to promote scavenging between the connected cylinders. The headers pictured do not have that feature so any affects of a true Tri-Y are not there. Physically you can say they are a Tri-Y but that is about it.
Now there may be some good effects to the design that will differentiate it from a 4-1 header design. Maybe one should call it a Hybrid Tri-Y.
IMHO a Tri-Y header is suppose to have "somewhat"
tuned lengths of primary and secondary pipes to promote scavenging between the connected cylinders. The headers pictured do not have that feature so any affects of a true Tri-Y are not there. Physically you can say they are a Tri-Y but that is about it.
Now there may be some good effects to the design that will differentiate it from a 4-1 header design. Maybe one should call it a Hybrid Tri-Y.
Last edited by 1989GTA; Oct 6, 2008 at 11:05 PM.
Tri-Y,s are used to help pick up the mid range power. They are getting very popular lately.
This Header was build specially for my 440ci engine by Allan @ FMS Futral Motor Sports.
Bob
This Header was build specially for my 440ci engine by Allan @ FMS Futral Motor Sports.
Bob
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,092
Likes: 11
I agree. I believe your headers have some merit don't get me wrong. Here is where I'm comming from. I will use PipeMax as an example. It is a program created by Larry Meax.
I will use my motor as an example. Here is what Larry's program says the pipe lengths should be for Tri-Y's on my motor. PipeMax say the primary pipes should be 13.5" to 15.5" long and the secondary pipes should also be 13.5" to 15.0" long. The primary pipe diameter is listed as 1.791" and the secondary pipe is listed as 1.916" in diameter.
Notice there is not much difference in the lengths of the primary and secondary pipes. These are the types of Tri-Y headers I'm used to seeing.
I will use my motor as an example. Here is what Larry's program says the pipe lengths should be for Tri-Y's on my motor. PipeMax say the primary pipes should be 13.5" to 15.5" long and the secondary pipes should also be 13.5" to 15.0" long. The primary pipe diameter is listed as 1.791" and the secondary pipe is listed as 1.916" in diameter.
Notice there is not much difference in the lengths of the primary and secondary pipes. These are the types of Tri-Y headers I'm used to seeing.
Last edited by 1989GTA; Oct 7, 2008 at 03:48 PM.
Why would you run different size diameter primaries? That just seems very strange, and wouldn't that cause different power output per cylinder? Different velocities of the exhaust, the larger being slower and wouldn't that be bad overall?
Thanks for the info, it is very informative!
Thanks for the info, it is very informative!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,092
Likes: 11
The primaries are smaller. They are listed a 1.791" which which would work out to a 1.75" primary pipe. The secondary pipe is listed as 1.916" which would work out to a 2.00" pipe.
I left off the collector pipe in my above reply.
Anyways PipeMax says the collector should be 2.817" to 3.016" in diameter. That works out to a 3" pipe. The length of the collector should be 16.6" long.
So for my motor that is what a Tri-Y header should be according to PipeMax. IMHO this what a traditional Tri-Y header would look like and the style I have seen in the past.
Now maybe the style in the picture above is something new and is found to work out quite well. I'm open to new ideas.
I left off the collector pipe in my above reply.
Anyways PipeMax says the collector should be 2.817" to 3.016" in diameter. That works out to a 3" pipe. The length of the collector should be 16.6" long. So for my motor that is what a Tri-Y header should be according to PipeMax. IMHO this what a traditional Tri-Y header would look like and the style I have seen in the past.
Now maybe the style in the picture above is something new and is found to work out quite well. I'm open to new ideas.
These are custom made for my engine specs. Yes Allan did use a program to match the engine spec. They are a two step header if you take a closer look.
I believe the primary length is not as important as placement of the correct firing order into the collector, collector type, collector diameter and collector length.
For a N/A car set-up, mid range power can be very important.
Bob
I believe the primary length is not as important as placement of the correct firing order into the collector, collector type, collector diameter and collector length.
For a N/A car set-up, mid range power can be very important.
Bob
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,092
Likes: 11
"These are custom made for my engine specs. Yes Allan did use a program to match the engine spec. They are a two step header if you take a closer look.
I believe the primary length is not as important as placement of the correct firing order into the collector, collector type, collector diameter and collector length.
For a N/A car set-up, mid range power can be very important"
I totally agree with all that. Larry Meaux lists the following criteria as most important for an exhaust system and in the following order.
1. Collector length
2. Collector diameter
3. Primary pipe diameter
4. Primary pipe length(least important)
I believe the primary length is not as important as placement of the correct firing order into the collector, collector type, collector diameter and collector length.
For a N/A car set-up, mid range power can be very important"
I totally agree with all that. Larry Meaux lists the following criteria as most important for an exhaust system and in the following order.
1. Collector length
2. Collector diameter
3. Primary pipe diameter
4. Primary pipe length(least important)
"These are custom made for my engine specs. Yes Allan did use a program to match the engine spec. They are a two step header if you take a closer look.
I believe the primary length is not as important as placement of the correct firing order into the collector, collector type, collector diameter and collector length.
For a N/A car set-up, mid range power can be very important"
I totally agree with all that. Larry Meaux lists the following criteria as most important for an exhaust system and in the following order.
1. Collector length
2. Collector diameter
3. Primary pipe diameter
4. Primary pipe length(least important)
I believe the primary length is not as important as placement of the correct firing order into the collector, collector type, collector diameter and collector length.
For a N/A car set-up, mid range power can be very important"
I totally agree with all that. Larry Meaux lists the following criteria as most important for an exhaust system and in the following order.
1. Collector length
2. Collector diameter
3. Primary pipe diameter
4. Primary pipe length(least important)
I believe Allan is using Larry Meaux data, but there is many places that will spec out headers for you like Burns for one example.
But many other things like flange alignment, the number of bends, radius of the bends and weld protruding into ID that all adds up as well.
Bob
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,092
Likes: 11
"Here is the nicest collector I've ever seen. From "Burns' Stainless"....."
Hehehe. I have that picture stored on my computer. I'm using it as a guide as I'm building my own headers. I have to use short tube headers with air in order to pass the smog visual. I firmly believe I can approach the efficiency of the long tubes. Going to give it a shot.
Hehehe. I have that picture stored on my computer. I'm using it as a guide as I'm building my own headers. I have to use short tube headers with air in order to pass the smog visual. I firmly believe I can approach the efficiency of the long tubes. Going to give it a shot.