I sure didn't, and looked down on cut spring setups ever since I've been in the hobby for going on 12 years now just like you're doing right now, until I experienced it first hand recently. Now after knowing how nice a cut spring setup can ride if done correctly I'm on cut springs (and I've owned multiple other setups including Konis for a good while). It's not like I don't want to spend the money. I've had Konis, hell I've had CCWs for wheels before, so it's not like I'm cheaping out. I just wanted the best all around setup with stance and ride quality as my two highest priorities, and it just so happens that a cut spring setup was the answer. Trust me, I was pretty surprised myself and wouldn't have believe it if I hadn't ridden in a car that rode like butter and was really low, then found out it was on cut springs.

Roll your eyes all you want, but cut springs are no different than lowering springs if you upgrade all the other stuff (just like you should with any lowering spring setup) and take a few extra measures to regain suspension travel that you've lost.

A spring is designed for a drop. They are just a shorter spring, there isn't any more magic that goes on than that, and then they hike the spring rates up to compensate for the extra drop so you don't bottom out. More rate = more stiff ride. Cut stock springs + UMM to regain lost suspension travel = stock length travel and ride and the benefit of a lower stance without the stiffer ride of higher spring rates.

By doing that you keep stock travel and stock rates, so the ride is very compliant just like stock (not stiffer like lowering spring setups), and by gaining back the suspension travel you lost you don't have to worry about bottoming it out.

For example if stock suspension travel is 6" then...

Stiff lowering springs means less travel, probably down at least the amount of the drop, so you're now at 4-4.5" of suspension travel and need more rate to avoid bottoming out.

Cut springs mean less travel, but with a few extra modifications you can get back the lost suspension travel and be back around 6", so you're back to where you started, just with a better stance. That's where I'm at. Then I added upgraded shocks and a few other small things for better handling. But just cutting stock springs and nothing else, yes, it's not going to ride very well.

This isn't rocket science people.

 

Different strokes for different folks on the looks. You like your big lips all around, I like staggered wheel fitments. Big lips all around only belong on trucks IMO, and your car needs to be lower for the wheel style and diameter you're using IMO. Love where you were going with it, but for my personal taste you missed the mark a bit. That's why we all like different things though, otherwise this hobby would be pretty mundane.

Now on the spring setup stuff, see below...


Okay, let's go about this another way chaman and cobrahunter...

Oh suspension engineering gurus please explain to me exactly WHY a cut spring setup would perform worse than a spring setup "designed to be shorter" IF suspension travel is equal (or even the cut spring setup had MORE suspension travel)?

 

josh99ta since the OP wanted something for looks and low cost cutting the springs and upgrading to better shocks would probably work for him.

Question is how much coil did you cut to get your stance?

Nevermind I found it on your site.

 

You don't have to be a guru but cutting springs is just cheaping out and you even could risk you car handling among other things. You sir wrong. Cutting springs mess up the spring rate and it is almost impossible to cut both sides or all the four corners equally to obtain and maintain consistency of how the suspension will behave. Also you will increase the stress on them by doing this not to mention you will weaken them and also will increase the stress on your shocks. Its the load and preload and the spring rate which are the main components affected when you cut the springs.

This has been discussed to death but of course if you think you know more about suspension than the engineers who build them be my guest. You are offering your experience as a FACT when the fact is that this practice has proven to be unsafe and provides usually a bad ride quality.

To the OP please....continue your research but do not attempt to cut your springs. You would think ride will be the same but you will notice after a while that you will destroy your shocks and will end up spending more fixing things up to get it right.

But anyways I know how good my car handles and look so OP, its your car...do as you please.

 

Where the hell is Sam Strano when you need him ?LOL He would exsplain in great detail why a stock cut spring is in no way better then a desighned lowered spring !Like the other guy said ,,,,it works for looks but is for **** in handleing. Why would you giver one up for the other when these lowered springs dont cost **** IMO If your that broke you shouldnt be trying to build a car LOL IMO Leave it stock

 

How does it "mess up" the spring rates?

Do you think that aftermarket springs are 100% the same all the time? Have you ever heard of "production tolerances?" Do you think if one spring is 499 lbs and one is 501 lbs it will completely ruin the ride and handling?

In what way will it increase the stress on them? How exactly?

Do lowering springs not put increased stress on shocks? If the shocks are upgraded to handle the spring rates and suspension travel shouldn't it not matter what springs are involved if everything else is built around them?

Please explain "load" and "preload" in springs. I am aware of spring rates. Load and preload are terms related to shocks. I wasn't aware of load and preload in springs, at least not in the technical sense (in case you're using your own words and not technical terms).
How many suspension setups have you had? I've had over half a dozen under F-Bodies alone. Nearly a dozen if you include other cars. I'm speaking from experience. You're speaking from theory (unless you have something to back it up). Please show me, from accredited sources, that cutting springs is unsafe (I know for a fact that if done right and designed around that they have excellent ride quality).

To the OP, please don't listen to this guy. With any lowering springs, cut springs or aftermarket, you need to upgrade shocks if you don't want to kill the factory ones on the car. So regardless of the route you choose to take, budget that in.

For what Sam does cut springs are garbage to him. For someone with a daily driver who wants a better stance and wants to keep a nice, compliant ride, who cuts their springs and then upgrades shocks and does something like the UMM to regain the lost suspension travel, handling not included, Sam would have no choice but to admit that if the springs were cut correctly it should be fine for ride quality. Whether he WOULD admit that or not, who knows. I doubt it. Which is why I said above show me something from an accredited engineer who has no horse in this race.

Why lower a car and gain handling only to give up ride quality with a stiffer ride? That doesn't make sense to me. I chose to lower the car for a better stance and to keep ride quality. Some people have different priorities. It doesn't make one or the other wrong.

 

Suddenly just out of the blue...
You know what....lets drop this ****. You started all this crap when you came bragging saying that your cut springs were better than my setup...that your stance was better than mine...I mean what the hell is wrong with you kid? Feel you have something to prove to me?? OP asked for opinions on different setups I gave mine....simple. If you feel cutting springs is better than aftermarket engineered ones....go ahead, but you are in a minority on this one, bud.

I dont have anything to prove nor I feel the need to start a flame war. Im very happy with my car and a lot of people give me props for it, even was praised by editors of GMHTP mag and published recently. They used pics taken from me also, so that made me proud too since photography is also a hobby of mine. Find someone else to flame kid.

OP, Im sorry for all this crap. Hope you get a nice suspension setup and remember to post pics!

 

ahaha, what a war. Yea I just gotta pick out some shocks, don't need anything expensive, prob leaning towards kyb's but im not sure which kyb shocks yet.

 

First off, I'm no kid. I had been on Tech for years before you ever came around, and have been a member for twice as long as you have. I remember when you first joined and started posting. I don't know your background before F-Bodies, but to my knowledge you've only had this one suspension setup under your car. I don't know if you've ever followed any of my posts but I've literally had at least 6 under the F-Bodies I've owned, not counting other cars I've owned over the years, and I posted up over the years about each and every one of them to try to help others know what to expect when spending their own money.

I'm not trying to start a flame war. You're the one talking so-called-facts that are simply incorrect, and not coming from any personal experience whatsoever obviously (because if you had personal experience with a proper suspension that had cut springs, you wouldn't be saying the things you are, it's just like somebody throwing on BMR springs on stock shocks and saying the ride sucks and BMR springs suck, when in actuality you know it's not the springs, it's the setup, same exact thing with my cut spring setup).

I'm simply trying to correct the misinformation you've posted. I wasn't in here to start a flame war, just clear up things a bit from a first-hand experience standpoint. Don't take it personally. I have no problem with you or your car. I like your car, and I enjoy your photography quite a bit. It's not 100% the way I'd do it, but it's definitely one of the better looking 'birds on the site IMO, and if we all had the same taste things would be boring. It's a really nice car though and it's obvious the work you've put into it and how proud of it you are and for that I give you props.

I do realize I'm in the minority though, and I used to be in the majority in thinking that cut spring setups instantly = garbage. My mind got changed immediately after riding in a properly set up car with cut springs. I had to eat crow, which I did. Which brings me to the fact that I have nothing to prove, but I feel that it's important to tell it like it is. Cut spring setups with the right measures taken for them to ride well are actually really nice. Granted all the lowering spring setups I've had before were more responsive in handling, but I never liked the ride quality. Since my SS is a daily driver I chose ride quality over handling. If my SS ever goes to weekend duty I'll pull this setup and put something stiffer in for better handling.

But also keep in mind I wasn't the one who started in on you. You started bashing cut spring setups with no facts and/or personal experience to back it up, which is when I stepped in. Quoted below in post order to back that up.

Valid recommendation, especially based on what the OP asked for.

The sarcasm is obvious here. You were the first one to start with this.

Again, speaking truth and valid recommendations to the OP.

Half assed, teenager mod, destroy his suspension, and more sarcasm...all based on nothing more than an uninformed opinion based on misinformation when others are speaking from experience.

My first statement was a true one, at least in my opinion, after experience with both setups. Granted that ride quality and handling are subjective areas, and even stance is too, but I think if someone took a ride in my car and then your car back to back they'd agree that your car rode more sporty and stiff and handled better, and my car was more compliant and rode better for daily driving but lacked in handling compared to yours (although with the upgraded shocks, bumpstops, and UMM my car handles significantly better than stock, I'd say halfway between stock and a lowering spring setup). Stance is stance, pictures tell the story there, pick what you prefer.

After that, you continued with the bashing and misinformation and I only continued to back up what I was saying with facts and experience. I don't know how it could be any more clear-cut than that. I wasn't the one flaming anybody. You were the one flying off the handle. I was simply calling you out on what you were saying and trying to correct it so the OP could make an educated choice on what he wanted to do with his suspension.

 

you sir, know how to present a very sound argument

 

to the OP until you do get your lowering springs/shocks you could always to the heater hose mod and drop the rear 1/2" or so

 

This will be my last post on this tired thread.

OP...please, for the sake of your ride and your safety, do not cut your springs. Listen to the majority here.

 

I read how josh99ta modified his spring set-up and although I'm no expert on springs or spring rates he certainly seems to have taken the time and effort to achieve his results.

My car has the stock factory springs and shocks and I do like the ride quality but would be happier if it sat just a bit lower. I've had lowered f-bodies before and although they have a nice lowered stance. It gets old having to constantly be aware of scraping the undercarriage and front bumper by traveling over speed bumps, dips and high angle driveways.

I bought a used set of slp/bilsteins springs and Bilsteins hd shocks and struts in hopes for a slightly firmer ride quality over the factory ones but if I'm not happy with that set-up I'll give josh99ta's set-up a try 1st. before I buy new springs.

 

cobrahunter, just because the majority believes something doesn't make it right when what they believe isn't based on anything.

Those are good springs. They usually lower the car around 3/4" all around over stock. Look up Xsta Z28 on here, he's a mod in the Wheels and Tires section, and widely regarded as a very knowledgeable member who would never do anything to his car to sacrifice safety (he locks threads all the time for people trying to run 315s on a 9 or 9.5" wheel, now that's extreme caution to safety because that can work but it's not advised), and he has those exact same springs. He did the hose mod in the rear and then cut them a little in the front (GASP, NOT CUT SPRINGS! ) to get a more along the lines of 1.25" lowering all around and he loves that setup.

 

Thanks man, I hoped that it made sense so the OP and anyone else who runs across this thread can make a good, educated decision based on budget and needs (handling vs. ride quality). Just trying to put some correct information out there since I've probably dropped over $8,000 into suspension mods and logged close to 150,000 miles in cars with those suspension mods over the years and figured that experience could be helpful. I'm not trying to pick on chaman or cobrahunter, just trying to clear up bad info.

 

Whatever....

To the OP take a look at this article. It explains quite well the pro and cons of suspension mods, including cutting springs...

http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/cutting-springs


And about experience, no Ive never spend $8,000 in suspension mods nor I'm planning to do so but I know a lot of folks who have done this and their suspension was fried in 6 months or less. That is enough for me. You don't need to jump off a cliff to know what the consequences are. Ive seen it happen its garbage....the rest of trustful sources regarding suspension confirms this. I don't need an internet unknown and his fans claiming a LOT of "experience" to tell me otherwise. I prefer to follow trustful, known sources to base my decisions. If some seem to be impressed by a well put argument...well, a well put argument does not guarantees it to be true. I leave the OP with that and hope you make a right decision.

 

I'll report back and let you know that my suspension is doing just fine and dandy in 6 months then.

As for Craig and his article, his argument is no different than my own. When you lower a car you lose suspension travel. Therefore rate needs to go up (or constant as he calls it) in order to compensate so that you don't bottom out the shocks or other things. When you cut springs you lose travel, but rate doesn't go up much (in our car's cases the rear springs actually rate up pretty well though when cut, approximately 130 lbs with one coil out, 150 lbs with two coils out, what was the rate on your rear springs again chaman? ). So now you're left with poor results with cut springs. But if you upgrade shocks, which is a necessity on any lowered car IMO, and if you modify the shock mount so that it allows more suspension travel (the UMM mod if you search for it will gain you back the lost suspension travel, and that's all you need because you won't ever fully compress the spring), then you're back to where you started.

Stock suspension travel is 6". Lowering springs lessen your suspension travel by as much as 2", so you need more rate or constant to keep from bottoming out since you only have 4" of travel now, which means a stiffer ride.

With cut springs and the UMM mod my suspension travel is roughly 5.5" so I still lose a little, but I am pretty low, my rates are up a little, I have better shocks, and I've upgraded bumpstops for better handling and ride too, so bone stock compared to my setup is about equal in terms of usable suspension range.

And it's all easy to do. Anybody could do it. It just adds a few more steps into the spring swap procedure (hacksaw the shock mounts for more travel, swap the bumpstops out on reassembly when you're putting better shocks on). For a more compliant ride those few extra steps are worth it to me.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything he says in his article though, and he even admits that cut springs will work well in some setups, and it just so happens that F-Bodies are a platform that actually does work well with cut springs. I'm sure there are TONS of platforms that it won't work well on, you can cut too much or cut by using heat in a F-Body application and get poor results, you can skip shocks and get poor results. But if you do it right, just like when you use any lowering spring other things should be upgraded too, you will get good results (if a compliant ride, better stance, and a slight bump in handling are the results you're after).

Are cut springs a bad idea on some cars? Yes.

Are cut springs a bad idea when other factors aren't taken into consideration and a suspension isn't upgraded around them? Yes.

Are cut springs still a bad idea on some cars? Absolutely. Even at that point you may not be able to find a way to regain travel lost, and with lower spring rates something has to give. But not on F-Bodies. There is a way to regain lost suspension travel. There are enough tolerances and clearance around the front suspension that there would be no a-arm to body contact as Craig's diagram suggested or any other kind of contact. The spring retainers are deep and work properly. The assembly bolts together tightly so the spring isn't going to pop out while driving. The only drawback to cut springs in the F-Body platform, when properly implemented, is that the tire can rub on the fender liner at when really compressed. The only time I experience this is when I'm at full lock and hit a dip going into a parking lot of something. I can hear it scrub a little. I also had the same problem with more than one suspension setup aside from this one. It doesn't hurt the tire, fender, or anything else (although will eventually rub a hole in the liner over a long period of time, but some people run around with no liners in, doesn't hurt anything). And since if you're cutting springs you probably won't be at full lock at higher speeds aggressively throwing the car through turns, it's a non-issue at speed.

I don't think going out and cutting springs on everything you can get your hands on is the right thing to do. I don't think it'll even work on some cars, because clearances just aren't there. But on these cars it works if you do it right and set it up right. Plain and simple.

 

maybe Sam recommends the Strano/Koni setup most of the time because IT IS THE BEST. with the adjustability it can be dialed in to suit almost anybodys desires. when people say they can't afford it, he recommends other things but cost aside the Strano/Koni setup IS THE BEST. if someone is setting up a drag car he often recommends something else. F bodies are all alike and most people have the same desires for their street cars. Lower, better handling, good ride. Of course the first choice will be Strano/Koni.

 

Even with the super-duper infinite adjustability a lot of folks have found them just to harsh for street duty. Im sorry to inform you that no, they are not the best setup for everyone, even when they can afford them. Maybe you should look for advices from other sources before reaching to conclusions as definitive as yours.

 

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE, for the 3rd ******* time, IM NOT CUTTING SPRINGS, I BOUGHT VOGTLAND SPRINGS ALREADY... im just waiting on which shocks to pick out now. I seriously wonder if you 3 guys arguing with each other are reading the posts your asking about and giving thoughts on. I'm im no rush as my car is away until April/May so im just buying all my toys now and then throwing them all on the car when it warms up. I DID NOT AND WILL NOT cut my springs, I bought springs already, just in case no one caught that. Now if anyone has advice besides kyb & koni shocks that would be appreciated, thanks lol.