Halo porjection headlights
03-22-2013 | 02:58 AM
#21
(regarding the use of smoked lenses)
I obviously agree with this statement, but I'd like to revise the situation slightly and see if anyone has some input. I too really love the daytime look of smoked lenses with black backgrounds (I too have a black Camaro) and since my car isn't a daily driver I don't see that even a noticeable loss of brightness is going to make the vehicle unsafe. That being said, I'm will never impede any system's proper function (as long as I deem that system important) for the sake of appearances.
So here's my question, surely someone out there has done a smoked lens WITH an HID conversion. Using low beams as an example, your typical 55W OEM style bulb is going to output anywhere from 1300-1500 lumens. If you go high end with a super bright Phillips XtremePower or Osram NightBreaker Halogen bulb, you may be able to bump that up to 1700-1900 lumens. But any respectable 35W low beam HID setup (e.g. anything between 5000-7000K) will easily output 2600-3000 lumens and up to 3600 with the high end units.
So assuming the smoked lens doesn't block more than 33% of the total light output (and I would never believe it blocks that much) a run of the mill (3000 lumen) HID setup should still output more lumens with a smoked lens than even the best Halogen bulb (2000 lumens) using a clear lens with the only negative being the increase in complexity and cost. But at least I can have my cake and eat it too.
Can anyone vouch for this hypothesis personally?
I obviously agree with this statement, but I'd like to revise the situation slightly and see if anyone has some input. I too really love the daytime look of smoked lenses with black backgrounds (I too have a black Camaro) and since my car isn't a daily driver I don't see that even a noticeable loss of brightness is going to make the vehicle unsafe. That being said, I'm will never impede any system's proper function (as long as I deem that system important) for the sake of appearances.
So here's my question, surely someone out there has done a smoked lens WITH an HID conversion. Using low beams as an example, your typical 55W OEM style bulb is going to output anywhere from 1300-1500 lumens. If you go high end with a super bright Phillips XtremePower or Osram NightBreaker Halogen bulb, you may be able to bump that up to 1700-1900 lumens. But any respectable 35W low beam HID setup (e.g. anything between 5000-7000K) will easily output 2600-3000 lumens and up to 3600 with the high end units.
So assuming the smoked lens doesn't block more than 33% of the total light output (and I would never believe it blocks that much) a run of the mill (3000 lumen) HID setup should still output more lumens with a smoked lens than even the best Halogen bulb (2000 lumens) using a clear lens with the only negative being the increase in complexity and cost. But at least I can have my cake and eat it too.
Can anyone vouch for this hypothesis personally?
03-22-2013 | 10:11 AM
#22
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,725
Likes: 191
From: Eastern MA
If you want the blacked out look but still have good output, go custom.
* Go with a dual projector setup.
* Get stock housings.
* Paint the housings black.
* Keep the lenses clear.
* Install projectors (ex: Morimoto Mini H1).
* Paint black the side of the cut-off shield that is visible through the lens. ONLY paint the shield, leave the rest of the projector alone.
Boom, done. blacked-out look without any compromise in output.
You can do that yourself, or call BLS and have them do it for you. They sell projector housings for the 1998-2002 Camaro that are better than what you can typically find on ebay and they will do custom solutions like I listed above. They probably already did at least one and can show you pics.
* Go with a dual projector setup.
* Get stock housings.
* Paint the housings black.
* Keep the lenses clear.
* Install projectors (ex: Morimoto Mini H1).
* Paint black the side of the cut-off shield that is visible through the lens. ONLY paint the shield, leave the rest of the projector alone.
Boom, done. blacked-out look without any compromise in output.
You can do that yourself, or call BLS and have them do it for you. They sell projector housings for the 1998-2002 Camaro that are better than what you can typically find on ebay and they will do custom solutions like I listed above. They probably already did at least one and can show you pics.
03-22-2013 | 10:13 AM
#23
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,725
Likes: 191
From: Eastern MA
Here is a pic of a custom BLS setup:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-g...spring-gp.html
That is a single projector setup with a painted high beam. The stock high beam's output will be reduced, but the Morimoto Mini H1 projector is bi-xenon (meaning it has built-in high beam) so that is fine.
That lens is completely clear. Not Smoked.
Bi-xenon in action:
The stock high beam is disabled in that pic. That is just the bi-xenon in action. However, i would keep the stock high beams wired up for more output and to keep flash-to-pass functionality.
This setup will have better output than those ebay Sonar or Spyder housings.
The Group Purchase pricing in that thread ends March 25, 2013.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-g...spring-gp.html
That is a single projector setup with a painted high beam. The stock high beam's output will be reduced, but the Morimoto Mini H1 projector is bi-xenon (meaning it has built-in high beam) so that is fine.
That lens is completely clear. Not Smoked.
Bi-xenon in action:
The stock high beam is disabled in that pic. That is just the bi-xenon in action. However, i would keep the stock high beams wired up for more output and to keep flash-to-pass functionality.
This setup will have better output than those ebay Sonar or Spyder housings.
The Group Purchase pricing in that thread ends March 25, 2013.
Last edited by VIP1; 03-22-2013 at 10:20 AM.
03-22-2013 | 01:14 PM
#25
Teching In
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Excellent response Daniel. But I dug up some more detail info on specific headlight tinting. I'm sure the window tinting is similar, but it's hard to make a comparison between the two since we only ever see headlight tint from the outside. While I don't know the exact material composition of common window tint vs headlight tint, I do know that window tint is specifically designed to knock out UV, visible light, and infrared (reduces interior fade, road glare, and heat). I honestly have no idea how headlight tint is engineered or if it is any different that window tint, but all we are concerned about here is visible light. Still, ultimately we are speaking the same language .... VLT or visible light transmission.
From a company specializing in headlight protectors including tinted models.
You can see the dark smoke is pretty dark (at least IMO) and it's listed as having 67% VLT which puts it right in line with what I was figuring. In all honesty, I think the light smoke would achieve the same look I am going for.
Here's a stang with the dark smoke tint offered by this website:
I still think a light smoke tint is within the realm of reason assuming you bump up your light output using HID projectors. Remember, my initial statement of 33% loss of transmittance or 67% VLT was comparing a middle of the road HID to the best possible Halogen. If we assume an OEM halogen is acceptable, we are saying a 50% VLT with HIDs would be an acceptable loss.
In all honesty I do think a clear lens with a black headlight background looks pretty dang good, but I would be lying if I didn't say, at least on a black car, that the smoked lens adds an additional degree of 'dark theme'.
From a company specializing in headlight protectors including tinted models.
What are your Headlight Protection Film Transmission Percentages (VLT):
> Blue Smoke Protector: 83% Light Transmission
> Clear Film: 100% Light Transmission
> Smoke (Dark) Protector: 67% Light Transmission
> Smoke (Light) Protector: 87% Light Transmission
> Yellow Smoke Protector: 86% Light Transmission
> Blue Smoke Protector: 83% Light Transmission
> Clear Film: 100% Light Transmission
> Smoke (Dark) Protector: 67% Light Transmission
> Smoke (Light) Protector: 87% Light Transmission
> Yellow Smoke Protector: 86% Light Transmission
You can see the dark smoke is pretty dark (at least IMO) and it's listed as having 67% VLT which puts it right in line with what I was figuring. In all honesty, I think the light smoke would achieve the same look I am going for.
Here's a stang with the dark smoke tint offered by this website:
I still think a light smoke tint is within the realm of reason assuming you bump up your light output using HID projectors. Remember, my initial statement of 33% loss of transmittance or 67% VLT was comparing a middle of the road HID to the best possible Halogen. If we assume an OEM halogen is acceptable, we are saying a 50% VLT with HIDs would be an acceptable loss.
In all honesty I do think a clear lens with a black headlight background looks pretty dang good, but I would be lying if I didn't say, at least on a black car, that the smoked lens adds an additional degree of 'dark theme'.
Last edited by SS BadaSS; 03-22-2013 at 01:19 PM.
03-22-2013 | 08:40 PM
#26
Teching In
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
If you want the blacked out look but still have good output, go custom.
* Go with a dual projector setup.
* Get stock housings.
* Paint the housings black.
* Keep the lenses clear.
* Install projectors (ex: Morimoto Mini H1).
* Paint black the side of the cut-off shield that is visible through the lens. ONLY paint the shield, leave the rest of the projector alone.
Boom, done. blacked-out look without any compromise in output.
You can do that yourself, or call BLS and have them do it for you. They sell projector housings for the 1998-2002 Camaro that are better than what you can typically find on ebay and they will do custom solutions like I listed above. They probably already did at least one and can show you pics.
* Go with a dual projector setup.
* Get stock housings.
* Paint the housings black.
* Keep the lenses clear.
* Install projectors (ex: Morimoto Mini H1).
* Paint black the side of the cut-off shield that is visible through the lens. ONLY paint the shield, leave the rest of the projector alone.
Boom, done. blacked-out look without any compromise in output.
You can do that yourself, or call BLS and have them do it for you. They sell projector housings for the 1998-2002 Camaro that are better than what you can typically find on ebay and they will do custom solutions like I listed above. They probably already did at least one and can show you pics.
This is purely my opinion, but a good analogy would be a black vehicle with all black interior (seats, dash, liner, carpet) with absolutely no window tinting. Everything is black, but all of the sudden the lines on the vehicle have changed since the windows are essentially non-existent. This is like blacked out headlight housings with clear lens to me. They look great and do a world of good to sort of blend the awesome lines of the 4th gen camaro front fascia together, but in the same manner that having dark tinting on windows will blend the whole body of a black car together, having smoked lens just seem to blend the front fascia and the hood and quarter panel together even better.
All that being said, I had the previous website's claim of dark smoke lens covers having 67% VLT. So I did some more digging and I found what seems to be a little bit more honest of a headlight/taillight tint company discussing VLT:
Headlight Armor - Smoked Film Light Transmission
We tested a variety of "Smoked Headlight Kits" from vendors who claim that their covers both look really dark but allow 60%-95% light transmission. If you go to the tint shop and ask for 80% window tint most won't have anything that light to begin with. We did find a shop that had a display with 70% and you could hardly tell it was tinted at all... We asked each vendor to verify their claims before we placed our order. They said 'absolutely, tinted headlight and taillight covers are measured differently'. From a variety of films to old school hard plastic / acrylic clip-on, the results were wildly different from the marketing claims.
We tested other suppliers items with our light transmission meter.
Claimed Transmission % Tested Transmission %
60% 18%
80% 28%
95% 45%
If you see a product that looks pretty dark chances are it is going to block light transmission. We have not found a way to make a chrome headlight or taillight look really dark black and yet have no effect on light output.
Headlight Armor Smoked Lighting kits are available in three levels of tinting
Light Smoke 50%
Standard Smoke 30%
Dark Stealth Smoke 20%
My exterior rebuild is still a ways off, but I am still honestly thinking that if OEM light levels are acceptable to me, then HID light level through a 50% VLT smoked lens would still be acceptable (no way I'm going past 50%). I think the thing to do would be to remove a factory headlight and in a controlled light environment with a DC power supply, measure the light output across the beam area and compare it to a smoked lens, HID setup. Since I don't even need to install the HID setup to test this, I would feel no guilt returning it if it was unsatisfactory. I was just hoping someone had already done something like this, or at least has some first hand opinions about light levels of HID projection lamps through a smoked lens compared to OEM headlights. We tested a variety of "Smoked Headlight Kits" from vendors who claim that their covers both look really dark but allow 60%-95% light transmission. If you go to the tint shop and ask for 80% window tint most won't have anything that light to begin with. We did find a shop that had a display with 70% and you could hardly tell it was tinted at all... We asked each vendor to verify their claims before we placed our order. They said 'absolutely, tinted headlight and taillight covers are measured differently'. From a variety of films to old school hard plastic / acrylic clip-on, the results were wildly different from the marketing claims.
We tested other suppliers items with our light transmission meter.
Claimed Transmission % Tested Transmission %
60% 18%
80% 28%
95% 45%
If you see a product that looks pretty dark chances are it is going to block light transmission. We have not found a way to make a chrome headlight or taillight look really dark black and yet have no effect on light output.
Headlight Armor Smoked Lighting kits are available in three levels of tinting
Light Smoke 50%
Standard Smoke 30%
Dark Stealth Smoke 20%
Last edited by SS BadaSS; 03-22-2013 at 08:57 PM.
03-24-2013 | 09:55 PM
#27
Copy & Paste Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,725
Likes: 191
From: Eastern MA
Headlights are too small for your tinted windows/interior analogy. Also, you can't look inside a headlight and see through the other side of the car. Please let me know if your headlights perform that magic. 
Blacked-out headlights with a decent set of projectors should look just as good. Looking at the pic I posted, it looks tinted, but its not.
Either way, its your car and you can do what you want. I'm just trying to help you make an informed decision.
Blacked-out headlights with a decent set of projectors should look just as good. Looking at the pic I posted, it looks tinted, but its not.
Either way, its your car and you can do what you want. I'm just trying to help you make an informed decision.
03-24-2013 | 10:15 PM
#28
My BLS headlights are all black inside with a clear lens, aside from the visible halo rings (yeah I like them on my car, deal with it ) Crappy cell pic of when I first installed them, just to give you an idea of how it looks. I'll try to get better pictures this spring as I don't have any good ones, during the day or the night light spread.
) Crappy cell pic of when I first installed them, just to give you an idea of how it looks. I'll try to get better pictures this spring as I don't have any good ones, during the day or the night light spread. 