blackdragonws6

I am converting my v6 firebird into a v8 ws6 trans-am. I recently bought a gauge cluster for the conversion for when I go to swap the engines. My current cluster only reads 120mph and the mileage is somewhere around 134k miles. I don't know the exact number off hand.

However the new cluster reads 150mph and has 95k miles on it. How do I change the mileage to reflect my current mileage on the V6 and what issues may I run into swapping the cluster out now before the engine swap? Then once the engine swap is complete and the new V8 is in the car how would I reset the odometer back to 0?

Any advice would be appreciated and please don't get into a pissing match about it being illegal, it's only illegal if you try to fraud someone by telling them the mileage is different than what it really is, which I would never do, and also I don't plan on selling the car. EVER!

King Nothing

iTrader: (9)

Tampering with the odometer is a crime.

blackdragonws6

Please read the first part of this ORC. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4549.46 "No transferor shall fail to provide the true and complete odometer disclosures required by section 4505.06 of the Revised Code."

And if you go into code 4549.42 please read section E

"If after the service of an odometer, the odometer can be set at the same mileage as before the service, the odometer shall be adjusted to reflect that mileage registered on the odometer of the motor vehicle before the service. If the odometer cannot be set at the same mileage as before the service, the odometer of the motor vehicle shall be adjusted to read "zero.""

I know and understand law very well. I studied it in college. As I stated before I am not adjusting mileage to falsify anything nor am I ever selling the vehicle. If someone has an answer to my question above that would be amazing. Thank you!

blackdragonws6

Also thought I would throw in the US Federal Law as well so you understand that this law is across the board on a Federal level, all you have to do is read section a.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/32704

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

I think someone figured out the mileage is stored on some chip that maybe you can move between the clusters. I don't know for sure. I'm just putting a snazzy screen in place of the stock odometer on my donor cluster, and can program the mileage on it to match what my car currently has easy enough.

blackdragonws6

Sparky, did you swap a 120 cluster for a 150?

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

I have not yet. I have the cluster, I'm going to (eventually when I can afford to) get a 6LE/McNord overlay for it and put it along with the new screen in my car. I got the cluster dirt cheap from ebay, pulled from a Formula.

Eventually I want to replace the 3.8L with something much bigger. But, I can't afford that anytime soon either

blackdragonws6

Those overlays look pretty neat! I bought mine from ebay as well, about 142 dollars. Out of an 02 TA.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

I got mine for just under 60 bucks

I'm thinking come spring I'll go ahead and install it as-is (with the new display installed), then upgrade it later on.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

the mileage info is actually stored in the cluster and it maybe transferable cant remember.

I went through this but didnt swap in an oe cluster I did a custom one. so I guess I super broke the law because my car only has about 2500miles on it after the motor swap.....

anywho the custer doesnt recieve direct info from any sensor, its all can communication from the ecm itself. So the RPMs will be off and possibly the speedo. Several error lights may not work as they dont apply to the v6. gearing and tire size will also apply here as that is stored in the ECM. I believe however you can remove the odemeter section from the cluster once its disassembled and swap it into the other cluster. might want to read through that led odometer thread as it may be mentioned there. I know some people did this swap without the intention of upgrading but you would need to find a v6 forum to confirm it. I used to be on firebirdv6.com and I remember someone there doing it. so try searching over there or on google for cluster swap info.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

Everything I've read is up through 98 you couldn't swap the gauges as almost nothing would work right, but 99-02 the clusters are a direct swap, barring a few minor differences.

Volts, fuel level, and temperature are the same.

Speedometer should still read accurately because while yes it is a 150 vs 120 speedometer, they are still both based off the PCM data stream in 99-02, and the signal is identical. The 120 vs 150 difference on the gauge face is based on the calibration in the cluster itself (not unlike getting your cluster recalibrated for a 200mph overlay, for example).

Tachometer is similar to the speedometer. I don't have them in front of me, but I think the RPM ranges are the same anyway (just redline is printed in a different spot).

Oil gauge needle will still follow the same sweep, but the range on the overlay is simply printed different (V6 uses higher oil PSI). So with the V8 gauge on a V6, the needle pointing straight up would be reading 40 instead of 60.

Again, this is all based on stuff I've read on v6 > v8 cluster swaps.

Guess when I plug it in to my car I'll find out for sure

Even if I find out it doesn't work, well, I'd need the V8 cluster for whenever I get to do an LS swap anyway, and the cluster was cheap!

blackdragonws6

I plan to work on this swap tomorrow to see what is the difference, mine is an 02 Y87 Performance package v6 firebird, so it already has the 3:42 gears in it that the V8's have and it already has 275/40R-17 YOKOHAMA S.DRIVE tires on it. I upgraded the tires from the 16inch to the 17 inch rims.

I figured the oil pressure would be inaccurate from the printing difference and a few lights are different and dont apply to the V6 from what I can visually tell from the cluster itself without putting it in. Im sure I will have to remove some bulbs but for the most part everything seems the same.

I plan to take pictures before the swap to see where the tachometer is and then plan to clock the cars speed by satellite to see if the speedo is accurate. I was just curious if anyone had actually done it yet so that I could see what problems I might be facing beforehand.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

In a 1998-2002 F-Body (Camaro and Firebird), there is one place, and one place ONLY where mileage is stored...and that is in the cluster mileage readout module that is inside the cluster.
I installed a new cluster back in 2002 when I wanted a Granitelli 200mph speedo layover on my factory cluster.

I figured I would take my original cluster out keep it. Then I called a Pontiac dealership in Phoenix, Arizona that had good prices on new clusters, and I got a brand new cluster....then I sent that new cluster to Granitelli to get the re-calibration done on it and have them install the 200mph layover.

The Phoenix dealership asked me what my mileage was so they could put it into the new cluster. I said to them...."won't my PCM fill in the correct mileage when I plug in the new cluster...??" They said absolutely not, that the cluster is the ONLY place mileage is stored in 98-02 F-Bodys. SO....I told them what my mileage was....""you laugh here"" ........they sent it to me and I installed it. The mileage that they inputted into the new cluster was the mileage that was showing. Then I drove it around for a month or so, and swapped my factory original cluster back in......the mileage on that original cluster is the mileage that was showing. I then drove it a few days and swapped my new Granitelli cluster back in, and again, it showed that clusters mileage.

I went to 2 different tuners to have them pull my mileage and they both could only pull the mileage that was showing on the cluster. Months later I swapped it again just to see if another tuner could pull the mileage at a local Chevrolet dealership....and it only showed the mileage from that cluster that was in there.

So....its 100% for sure that in the 98-02 F-Bodys mileage is only stored on the cluster itself......the PCM has nothing to do with mileage. And NO, the BCM doesn't either....LOL.

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO CORVETTES........ask me how I know....LOL

Vid of my Granitelli below. And I have tested it many times on those Police Radar readouts they put on the side of the roads to scare people. Every time I see one I see how high I can get it....the Granitelli speedo is dead nuts on at least up to 99mph.....

http://vid263.photobucket.com/albums...pszg1mqvdu.mp4


.

blackdragonws6

You're almost out of gas in that video there LS6427! haha! Anyways I did the swap today, everything reads as it should, speedo is accurate. The Tachometer is spot on and all the lights line up and work as they should. The only difference is that the Odometer is now incorrect. I took pictures before and after the swap so I got both odometers so I know what the numbers are and can correct the odometer if I can find someone who knows how to change it. No one around this small podunk town seems to know how to do it.

The only other thing that is off is the oil pressure gauge. It now reads 40, as where the v6 read 60. So basically I just have to keep in mind that it is 20 more than what it actually says, the swap was pretty easy and I was very impressed that everything works and functions well. An the fact now that the speedo read 150 instead of 120! It will be ready to go when I drop the V8 in there!

If anyone knows anyone that will fix the odometer let me know. I'd like to do what I stated earlier in this thread!

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

LOL....yea, that short video is actually my house to the gas station at the end of the video....I was just pulling into the station.

Dealerships around me can do the mileage change on the odometer. You might have to send it to someone, the cluster has to be out of the car for them to change the mileage reading.

BUT......how much is the difference in mileage readings from the old to the new cluster?

If its not much, just leave it that way. If its less, nobody cares....lol, its no big deal.

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