should i do a t-top conversion?
02-25-2007, 07:11 AM
#21
I had a hard top before I bought the bird I have now...yeah it sucked not having t-tops but for some reason there's SOMETHING I miss about having a hard top...........
Would I attempt doing this? No, have I considered it? Yes. Like above, this isnt your simple TB Bypass
Your sawzawing your friggin roof...if you NEED to get it done, I'd save up money and get it done by a shop, so that if it DOES leak or if anything IS fucked up, you'll have it warrantied.
A think you'll learn is warrantying will save your time, *** and money over and over!
And holy **** its 8:11AM and I'm hungover like ****
Would I attempt doing this? No, have I considered it? Yes. Like above, this isnt your simple TB Bypass
Your sawzawing your friggin roof...if you NEED to get it done, I'd save up money and get it done by a shop, so that if it DOES leak or if anything IS fucked up, you'll have it warrantied.A think you'll learn is warrantying will save your time, *** and money over and over!
And holy **** its 8:11AM and I'm hungover like ****
02-25-2007, 09:04 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Tainted
Well, im highly against it for several reasons. First off most of yall know I do a lot of body work with my grandpa and the average person can't sucessfully do a project like this. Second of all the T tops might not even fit right and you can have water leaks. Third the hardtop cars are a bit more rigid than the t-top cars which wont elt the chasis flex as much, you'll still get it, and its not gonna help by much but it will some. and finally the ahrdtops are a bit rare 
Here's the link for the walkthrough:
Walkthrough
Here's teh link to the thread:
Original Thread
Here's teh pics in case they don't load in the thread:
I'd say the average person can do this. As long as you aren't retarded and can use a sawzall.
Last edited by phantomzer0; 02-25-2007 at 09:14 AM.
02-25-2007, 09:27 AM
#23
Launching!
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bay Village, OH
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did it to mine about 3 years ago and love it! I had an 88 IROC before with t-tops and I wanted them on the formula. Not too bad to do and they came out looking like factory - NO LEAKS either 
02-25-2007, 09:59 AM
#24
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OldSchoolFormula: I dont see how hardtops are any stiffer being its just a flimsy piece of platic/fiberglass stretched over a t-top frame. If you want t-tops, go for it. The only people who like hardtops are the people with t-tops that say they are "rare". They're rare because t-tops are pimp. LoL. When I cruise my girls '94 T/A the tops are off all spring, summer evenings and fall.
For what it's worth, I have a t-top Z28 and am considering to convert it to a hardtop car... just for the increase in chassis rigidity.
That being said, All t-top cars started out from the factory as if they were going to be a hardtop car. Then, after the car is welded together, those two braces are removed for the t-top cars. It should be no problem for you or a shop to do this conversion and have it turn out just like the factory t-top cars.
- Jim
02-25-2007, 03:17 PM
#26
TECH Regular
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by vtirocz
I disagree. On hardtop cars, there are two braces that connect the sail panel area to the windshield. These braces look very rigid in tension/compression and will increase the torsional rigidity of the chassis (although by how much I do not know).
For what it's worth, I have a t-top Z28 and am considering to convert it to a hardtop car... just for the increase in chassis rigidity.
That being said, All t-top cars started out from the factory as if they were going to be a hardtop car. Then, after the car is welded together, those two braces are removed for the t-top cars. It should be no problem for you or a shop to do this conversion and have it turn out just like the factory t-top cars.
- Jim
For what it's worth, I have a t-top Z28 and am considering to convert it to a hardtop car... just for the increase in chassis rigidity.
That being said, All t-top cars started out from the factory as if they were going to be a hardtop car. Then, after the car is welded together, those two braces are removed for the t-top cars. It should be no problem for you or a shop to do this conversion and have it turn out just like the factory t-top cars.
- Jim
Your completely right about the braces, I stand corrected. They are held in with minor spotwelds and I never thought they would add a significant amount of ridgitidy. Ive been in convertibles, hardtops and t-tops cars and have never noticed a real difference between a t-top car and a hardtop while the convertibles are quite flimsy. Are there actual numbers available for torsional stiffness?
02-25-2007, 05:42 PM
#27
Originally Posted by OldSchoolFormula
Your completely right about the braces, I stand corrected. They are held in with minor spotwelds and I never thought they would add a significant amount of ridgitidy. Ive been in convertibles, hardtops and t-tops cars and have never noticed a real difference between a t-top car and a hardtop while the convertibles are quite flimsy. Are there actual numbers available for torsional stiffness?
This "rigidity" debate needs to END!!! Whistler chopped his into a targa top, put a damn near 300lbs friend on the windshiled and measured movement with a micrometer, there was none. So first rigidity question (added support to the windshield?) is answered NO, it adds no rigidity...
Second question, overall car rigidity from the added side supports... HELL NO! If you've ever done one (and screwed around while doing it) you know if you sit on them they will bend, can't be adding too much rigidity from a little bit of sheet metal (look at a hardtop that has rolled, they're usually bent)...
All these cars need SFC's anyways... Get those first regardless if you are cutting the roofs out or not. With SFC's you will have nothing to worry about.
I mean, for the love of God! All those flimsy pieces of metal are tying together is the a-pillars to the sail panel... SFC's tie together the entire subframe!!!
02-25-2007, 06:28 PM
#31
Originally Posted by noxiouSS
hardtops look to sexy to hack it up.
What is it about hardtops that people say looks good? I never envied my friends untill I saw them pop their tops off and cruise around knowing I couldn't
... 
02-25-2007, 08:19 PM
#34
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DEMONBIRD quote: This "rigidity" debate needs to END!!! Whistler chopped his into a targa top, put a damn near 300lbs friend on the windshiled and measured movement with a micrometer, there was none. So first rigidity question (added support to the windshield?) is answered NO, it adds no rigidity...
Second question, overall car rigidity from the added side supports... HELL NO! If you've ever done one (and screwed around while doing it) you know if you sit on them they will bend, can't be adding too much rigidity from a little bit of sheet metal (look at a hardtop that has rolled, they're usually bent)...
All these cars need SFC's anyways... Get those first regardless if you are cutting the roofs out or not. With SFC's you will have nothing to worry about.
I mean, for the love of God! All those flimsy pieces of metal are tying together is the a-pillars to the sail panel... SFC's tie together the entire subframe!!!.
Second question, overall car rigidity from the added side supports... HELL NO! If you've ever done one (and screwed around while doing it) you know if you sit on them they will bend, can't be adding too much rigidity from a little bit of sheet metal (look at a hardtop that has rolled, they're usually bent)...
All these cars need SFC's anyways... Get those first regardless if you are cutting the roofs out or not. With SFC's you will have nothing to worry about.
I mean, for the love of God! All those flimsy pieces of metal are tying together is the a-pillars to the sail panel... SFC's tie together the entire subframe!!!.
If you have a t-top car (even with SFCs), put your finger between the gaps in the t-top (between the windshield and t-top.. and between the sail panel and t-top) while you are driving down the highway. You will feel deflection in the chassis. These two braces are very strong in tension and compression, not strong in bending. However, the only loading that is put on them while you're driving is tension/compression loading.
Basically, they are of similar construction to the rest of the chassis.
If you measured torsional rigidity of the chassis (in terms of 1st mode natural frequency, something GM did when they designed these cars), I bet you'd find that those braces result in a significantly higher frequency than a car with just t-tops (ie. hardtop chassis stiffer). SFCs would increase that frequency value as well, but I bet the braces would have more of an impact. If anyone has data to prove me wrong, please provide it because I am interested in this.
OLDSCHOOLFORMULA,
There are actual numbers on the torsional stiffness of 4th gen f-body's, however, I could only find data on t-top cars. GM would have done this testing for all of the configurations though.
1st mode nat frequency bending = 23Hz (3rd gen is 18Hz)
1st mode nat frequency torsional = 20Hz (3rd gen is 16Hz)
A higher number here is better and means the chassis is stiffer.
Thanks,
Jim
02-25-2007, 08:39 PM
#35
Originally Posted by vtirocz
DEMONBIRD,
If you have a t-top car (even with SFCs), put your finger between the gaps in the t-top (between the windshield and t-top.. and between the sail panel and t-top) while you are driving down the highway. You will feel deflection in the chassis.
If you have a t-top car (even with SFCs), put your finger between the gaps in the t-top (between the windshield and t-top.. and between the sail panel and t-top) while you are driving down the highway. You will feel deflection in the chassis.
I also have been in friend's cars with NO SFC's who had NO deflection and some WITH deflection so I am not declaring one way or the other 100%...
Even if there were a slight rigidity increase, it would no where near compare to the enjoyability factor this guy is looking to get out of his daily driver...
We're not talking about a drag or autocross car here guys...
02-25-2007, 09:19 PM
#36
12 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Columbus, Tx.
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DEMONBIRD
I've known about that for awhile... I don't have deflection (even when cornering hard which my car is setup to do: Koni DA's, 35mm and 21mm sway bars). I honestly think you're feeling a loose t-top more than anything...
I also have been in friend's cars with NO SFC's who had NO deflection and some WITH deflection so I am not declaring one way or the other 100%...
Even if there were a slight rigidity increase, it would no where near compare to the enjoyability factor this guy is looking to get out of his daily driver...
We're not talking about a drag or autocross car here guys...
I also have been in friend's cars with NO SFC's who had NO deflection and some WITH deflection so I am not declaring one way or the other 100%...
Even if there were a slight rigidity increase, it would no where near compare to the enjoyability factor this guy is looking to get out of his daily driver...
We're not talking about a drag or autocross car here guys...
But keep the advise coming.......for and against. Thanks.
Brent
02-25-2007, 09:28 PM
#37
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Katy & College Station, TX
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you just wanna be a balla like me. shotcalla like me.
for real though man, if you decide to do it, i don't see why you would regret it unless whoever does it for you does a shitty job and your car is fubar. just do some research and find the best person to take it to, which may mean paying a pretty penny but itll be worth it. on a side note i won the novice class today...whoop!
for real though man, if you decide to do it, i don't see why you would regret it unless whoever does it for you does a shitty job and your car is fubar. just do some research and find the best person to take it to, which may mean paying a pretty penny but itll be worth it. on a side note i won the novice class today...whoop!
02-25-2007, 09:33 PM
#38
no, leave it the hell alone. if you want t-tops get a t-top car
Dont DO IT, sell your car and buy a T-top. It's not an easy bolt-on operation you are talking about.
if it's something he wants and he doesn't want to get rid of it because of the emotional attachment like we ALL have with our cars...why would it be benificial to sell his car and get a ttop car JUST to have ttops? i'd think it'd be A) less work B) WAY cheaper and C)more satisfying knowing that you did it yourself.
i just can't stand when people say sell your car and get another one...that's like the stupidest thing ever...there is nothing reasonable about that at all...
like PhantomZer0 said, Kristen (I think that's her name) from Firebird/CamaroV6 did it to her car in a weekend...
just my $.02
When I was single SO many girls (not car girls mind you) were impressed when I told them I cut the roof off myself
02-25-2007, 10:13 PM
#40
Originally Posted by phantomzer0
Dead. Wrong. Let me get you the thread. A GIRL from a v6 forum did it in a weekend, and it turned out quite well. Honestly, it turned out really well. Let me just dig that up for you guys.
Here's the link for the walkthrough:
Walkthrough
Here's teh link to the thread:
Original Thread
Here's teh pics in case they don't load in the thread:
I'd say the average person can do this. As long as you aren't retarded and can use a sawzall.
Here's the link for the walkthrough:
Walkthrough
Here's teh link to the thread:
Original Thread
Here's teh pics in case they don't load in the thread:
I'd say the average person can do this. As long as you aren't retarded and can use a sawzall.
Even if some people do pull it off, what happens if you **** up? youre fucked