Someone put my mind at ease!
Someone put my mind at ease! Heres the deal guys. Several months ago I picked up a Porter Cable, some orange CCS pads, some white CCS pads and a Menzerna IP/FPII combo. Does a great job of removing light swirls on my NBM WS6. This is going to be a terribly dumb question but....How much is too much? I've heard that one REAL polish a year is enough, but to be honest I find myself doing monthly touchups (usually just 1 pass of FPII to get those light swirls from wiping dust off with a quick detailer, and sometimes a pass of IP on the hood. People have joked about buffing through your clear, but is that realistic seeing as how I'm doing one pass, little to no pressure, with not that much product? Here in another month my ca will be retired to a fair weather only car, so hopefully the swirls will slow down then. Someone either put my mind at ease, or set me straight. But i cant STAND swirl marks! Thanks guys!
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Little to no pressure, amount of product, well really this is not the key.
The point is to have the right pad for the finish, the right products, technique that You use, You skill.
Wax/polish only hides swirl marks, You need to make sure You REMOVE them, not hide them. It also depends on Your clear coat condition.
I know what I am talking about, I think I buffed half of the cars in my state over the years
If You live in IL, I could do it for ya.
The point is to have the right pad for the finish, the right products, technique that You use, You skill.
Wax/polish only hides swirl marks, You need to make sure You REMOVE them, not hide them. It also depends on Your clear coat condition.
I know what I am talking about, I think I buffed half of the cars in my state over the years
If You live in IL, I could do it for ya.
well try not to take offense to this because there is none intended, but I've always been one of those people who likes to do things on my own if at all possible. I may not be as good or as experienced as you are but I would say I'm far from "not" knowing what im doing. I've used this combo for about 5 months successfully. I was under the impression that Menzerna was an abraisive product that actually removed swirls? I couldnt tell you the clear coat condition because I'm the third owner and I dont know how many times its been buffed etc. but the car has 48,000 on it and looks better than alot of cars do with 10,000 on them. All I'm asking is if I'm pushing my limits doing my "touchups". Heres some attached pics of the shine I have been getting.
Originally Posted by CRZYPWR
Little to no pressure, amount of product, well really this is not the key.
The point is to have the right pad for the finish, the right products, technique that You use, You skill.
Wax/polish only hides swirl marks, You need to make sure You REMOVE them, not hide them. It also depends on Your clear coat condition.
I know what I am talking about, I think I buffed half of the cars in my state over the years
If You live in IL, I could do it for ya.
The point is to have the right pad for the finish, the right products, technique that You use, You skill.
Wax/polish only hides swirl marks, You need to make sure You REMOVE them, not hide them. It also depends on Your clear coat condition.
I know what I am talking about, I think I buffed half of the cars in my state over the years
If You live in IL, I could do it for ya.
A wax can hide swirls of course.
Last edited by bboyferal; Jun 25, 2007 at 12:31 AM.
Originally Posted by mattl31
Heres the deal guys. Several months ago I picked up a Porter Cable, some orange CCS pads, some white CCS pads and a Menzerna IP/FPII combo. Does a great job of removing light swirls on my NBM WS6. This is going to be a terribly dumb question but....How much is too much? I've heard that one REAL polish a year is enough, but to be honest I find myself doing monthly touchups (usually just 1 pass of FPII to get those light swirls from wiping dust off with a quick detailer, and sometimes a pass of IP on the hood. People have joked about buffing through your clear, but is that realistic seeing as how I'm doing one pass, little to no pressure, with not that much product? Here in another month my ca will be retired to a fair weather only car, so hopefully the swirls will slow down then. Someone either put my mind at ease, or set me straight. But i cant STAND swirl marks! Thanks guys!
1. The lovely thing about the PC is that even with the harshest pad and polish it will abrade only so little at a time... In other words, many clearcoats can withstand a large amount of PC work before there is none left, viz. VERY little clearcoat reduction will occur... In fact, sometimes not enough, which is why many people get swirls a PC cannot remove.
If we were talking about a rotary buffer or wetsanding, it's a whole different story... So for touch-ups it seems you're KIND OF safe, but this leads to another consideration... Which is
2. WHY? Why so many swirls? I'd definitely look very closely at your washing/waxing routine for culprits that lead to swirls. Once discovered, you could eliminate them and not have to worry about swirl removal AS OFTEN.
I'm not going to toot my own horn, but I think I have a good washing technique. I've spent alot of time around autopia detailing forums making sure I had good technique (2 bucket method, 2 wash mits etc.) im confident that ALL of my swirls are from my quick detailer sessions, and when I say swirls i mean they are REALLY light (seen in the sun only, one pass of FPII takes em out). I told you all this was a dumb question, and I probably should have asked but one of my moms friends joked about me buffing through my clear and it got me wondering. PC is great for swirls but after seeing how it fails on moderate scratches, i find it hard to believe it could diminish clearcoat significantly.
edit: and like i said in a month my car will be fair weather only. as of now i only drive it when it isnt raining, but i park it at work for 5 hours a day where its surrounded by gravel parking lots, alleys, etc.
edit: and like i said in a month my car will be fair weather only. as of now i only drive it when it isnt raining, but i park it at work for 5 hours a day where its surrounded by gravel parking lots, alleys, etc.
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LOL!
So, then what's the point of this topic?
Is your question if once a month will rapidly diminish your clearcoat with the PC and FPII (I'm assuming white pad here)? If so, then not to the degree I would worry about... I'd certainly have other worries instead, but hey, I'd hate to patronize/condescend ya.
Well, this one I have to mention: If you're swirling your car with Quik Detailer and a premium microfiber, you're doing something wrong there with the actual wiping and/or with how you're sealing the paint after the FPII... Don't mean to imply you are clueless or anything, ok?
So, then what's the point of this topic?
Is your question if once a month will rapidly diminish your clearcoat with the PC and FPII (I'm assuming white pad here)? If so, then not to the degree I would worry about... I'd certainly have other worries instead, but hey, I'd hate to patronize/condescend ya.
Well, this one I have to mention: If you're swirling your car with Quik Detailer and a premium microfiber, you're doing something wrong there with the actual wiping and/or with how you're sealing the paint after the FPII... Don't mean to imply you are clueless or anything, ok?
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Verdad Gallardo haha no I really appreciate constructive criticism. I've been thinking about stepping up to the Menzerna FMJ but as of now I've been using Meguiars #26 by hand followed by NXT pate by hand. Probably not the most durable combination. Do you have any favorites?
Well, right away I can tell you that #26 is a BADASS carnauba wax, possibly unmatched for shine and depth in my opinion. However, here are some problems to note immediately.
The only thing you can truly and effectively layer on a pure carnauba is another pure carnauba. You're trying to layer a polymer sealant (NXT) that has some cleaning properties... You're probably both cleaning the #26 RIGHT OFF... AND tacking on an improperly set layer of NXT that could not bond properly to the clearocat...
The NXT, which I think is an awesome product, should be applied to the clearcoat directly. Doing so will create a seal that can last for 6 months or so of excellent protection. This is of course applied only to a proper application, viz. Polymer sealant applied directly to bare, uncontaminated paint and then allowed to cure properly.
Any pure carnauba with no cleaners that can layer can then be set ON TOP OF the NXT, unaffecting it, not disturbing the seal of protective topcoat.
What you're doing now, basically, is applying a layer of pure carnauba (which looks great but can sometimes be washed off in ONE RAIN or a couple of day's worth of sun... High melting point) and then applying NXT which cleans OFF the wax you just set, which is then improperly set itself! Afterwards, since your car is not effectively sealed and the paint is unprotected, swirls in the clearcoat are easily inflicted, e.g. with a microfiber and Quik Detail spray, for instance... You need to reverse these steps immediately.
The only thing you can truly and effectively layer on a pure carnauba is another pure carnauba. You're trying to layer a polymer sealant (NXT) that has some cleaning properties... You're probably both cleaning the #26 RIGHT OFF... AND tacking on an improperly set layer of NXT that could not bond properly to the clearocat...
The NXT, which I think is an awesome product, should be applied to the clearcoat directly. Doing so will create a seal that can last for 6 months or so of excellent protection. This is of course applied only to a proper application, viz. Polymer sealant applied directly to bare, uncontaminated paint and then allowed to cure properly.
Any pure carnauba with no cleaners that can layer can then be set ON TOP OF the NXT, unaffecting it, not disturbing the seal of protective topcoat.
What you're doing now, basically, is applying a layer of pure carnauba (which looks great but can sometimes be washed off in ONE RAIN or a couple of day's worth of sun... High melting point) and then applying NXT which cleans OFF the wax you just set, which is then improperly set itself! Afterwards, since your car is not effectively sealed and the paint is unprotected, swirls in the clearcoat are easily inflicted, e.g. with a microfiber and Quik Detail spray, for instance... You need to reverse these steps immediately.
well i feel like a dumbass now. somewhere in my readings i must have gotten the orders switched up. I'll do a full polish, NXT, and #26 and let you know how it works out! thanks for all your help!
edit: look at this....ironic huh?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/appearance-detailing/737952-porter-cable-buffer-effects-clear-coat-surfaces.html
edit: look at this....ironic huh?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/appearance-detailing/737952-porter-cable-buffer-effects-clear-coat-surfaces.html
