HP Lost Due to Stall?
HP Lost Due to Stall? I have been told that a stall decreases the hp on the car slightly but it is made up for with better times and such. How much power is lost exactly?
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 521
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From: Farmingdale NJ
That all depends on the converter brand, size, etc.
I've heard of people loosing only 1-2hp with Yanks in the 3000-3600 range (I don't know about other size Yanks), and the few dyno sheets I've seen from TCS have been fairly impressive too.
The Vig converters are a little less efficient up top, in the 10-15hp range from what I've seen. I don't know about other brands.
It has a lot to do with build quality, and design. A physically smaller converter will have higher efficiency at a higher stall simply because of internal geometry, you can keep a posative rake on the converter fins yet achieve higher stall with a smaller converter. STR plays a factor too, lower STR won't launch as hard but is typically more efficient top end. Higher STR converters usually hit harder off the bottom but loose a little more up high. That difference with the newest converters only seems to be a few HP however, nothing drastic.
Where you make up the benefits though are improved launching capabilities wich cut down on 60' times, and shift extention. Although you may loose a few HP up top, the engine spends more time in it's power range so you will have more average power available throughout the gear.
Of course, the amount of power the engine makes plays a factor too. If you have a 700hp 427 stroker, you may see a 15hp loss, where a bone stock 346 with minor bolt ons may only loose 5hp or so.
I've heard of people loosing only 1-2hp with Yanks in the 3000-3600 range (I don't know about other size Yanks), and the few dyno sheets I've seen from TCS have been fairly impressive too.
The Vig converters are a little less efficient up top, in the 10-15hp range from what I've seen. I don't know about other brands.
It has a lot to do with build quality, and design. A physically smaller converter will have higher efficiency at a higher stall simply because of internal geometry, you can keep a posative rake on the converter fins yet achieve higher stall with a smaller converter. STR plays a factor too, lower STR won't launch as hard but is typically more efficient top end. Higher STR converters usually hit harder off the bottom but loose a little more up high. That difference with the newest converters only seems to be a few HP however, nothing drastic.
Where you make up the benefits though are improved launching capabilities wich cut down on 60' times, and shift extention. Although you may loose a few HP up top, the engine spends more time in it's power range so you will have more average power available throughout the gear.
Of course, the amount of power the engine makes plays a factor too. If you have a 700hp 427 stroker, you may see a 15hp loss, where a bone stock 346 with minor bolt ons may only loose 5hp or so.
Dyno Numbers (best):
Stock converter: SAE: 318.1/334.2 - Actual: 331.6/348.3
Yank TP-4400: SAE: 314.0/390.6 - Actual: 318.0/395.4
1/4 Mile Times (best):
Stock converter: 12.67 @ 109.99 (1.88)
Yank TP-4400: 12.07 @ 111.42 (1.62)
So I lost 4 RWHP(SAE) and 6 tenths in the quarter
Stock converter: SAE: 318.1/334.2 - Actual: 331.6/348.3
Yank TP-4400: SAE: 314.0/390.6 - Actual: 318.0/395.4
1/4 Mile Times (best):
Stock converter: 12.67 @ 109.99 (1.88)
Yank TP-4400: 12.07 @ 111.42 (1.62)
So I lost 4 RWHP(SAE) and 6 tenths in the quarter
Originally Posted by WILWAXU
Dyno Numbers (best):
Stock converter: SAE: 318.1/334.2 - Actual: 331.6/348.3
Yank TP-4400: SAE: 314.0/390.6 - Actual: 318.0/395.4
1/4 Mile Times (best):
Stock converter: 12.67 @ 109.99 (1.88)
Yank TP-4400: 12.07 @ 111.42 (1.62)
So I lost 4 RWHP(SAE) and 6 tenths in the quarter
Stock converter: SAE: 318.1/334.2 - Actual: 331.6/348.3
Yank TP-4400: SAE: 314.0/390.6 - Actual: 318.0/395.4
1/4 Mile Times (best):
Stock converter: 12.67 @ 109.99 (1.88)
Yank TP-4400: 12.07 @ 111.42 (1.62)
So I lost 4 RWHP(SAE) and 6 tenths in the quarter
What RPM were the HP numbers from?
What gears were you running?
Thanks
John
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i think texas speed had done a dyno with the tci 3500 and lost around 10hp and 15ft lbs over stock, but its made up through the launches and shift extensions so i wouldnt worry about dyno #'s very much.
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Originally Posted by JNorris
Are those numbers with both converters locked?
What RPM were the HP numbers from?
What gears were you running?
Thanks
John
What RPM were the HP numbers from?
What gears were you running?
Thanks
John
Car had less than 8,000 miles on it.. stock manifolds and cats
Breakdown of the mods is listed on my webpage http://www.geocities.com/wilwaxu/about.html#formula
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 521
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From: Farmingdale NJ
Originally Posted by WILWAXU
Dyno Numbers (best):
Stock converter: SAE: 318.1/334.2 - Actual: 331.6/348.3
Yank TP-4400: SAE: 314.0/390.6 - Actual: 318.0/395.4
1/4 Mile Times (best):
Stock converter: 12.67 @ 109.99 (1.88)
Yank TP-4400: 12.07 @ 111.42 (1.62)
So I lost 4 RWHP(SAE) and 6 tenths in the quarter
Stock converter: SAE: 318.1/334.2 - Actual: 331.6/348.3
Yank TP-4400: SAE: 314.0/390.6 - Actual: 318.0/395.4
1/4 Mile Times (best):
Stock converter: 12.67 @ 109.99 (1.88)
Yank TP-4400: 12.07 @ 111.42 (1.62)
So I lost 4 RWHP(SAE) and 6 tenths in the quarter
And if you look at your times, your MPH actually reflects an INCREASE in HP over stock. Like I had said earlier, you loose a few HP but your AVERAGE horsepower power increases. Picking up 1.5mph is a good indication of that.
Tesax also dynoed a locked and unlocked TP4400 and lost 40RWHP.
Thats real efficient
FWIW,I lost 30RW with my Vig 3800.
I might try there Multi disc after seeing how efficent it was when Jason at MTI tested it.
From my understanding it only lost 3 to 4 RW...
I love the BS I see about verters on here,I've tried them all and IMO there all within 1 tenth of each other depending on the stall u are comparing.Just go with a reputable company.
Thats real efficient
FWIW,I lost 30RW with my Vig 3800.
I might try there Multi disc after seeing how efficent it was when Jason at MTI tested it.
From my understanding it only lost 3 to 4 RW...
I love the BS I see about verters on here,I've tried them all and IMO there all within 1 tenth of each other depending on the stall u are comparing.Just go with a reputable company.
The efficiency of a converter depends on what RPM it is tested at, whether it is locked or not and to a lesser degree what gears you are running.
When locked all converters will be equally efficient or should be.
If you measure the efficiency (unlocked) of a 4400 and a 3200 stall at 4000rpm the 3200 will be much more efficient. This is because the 4400 has not yet reached its hydraulic coupling rpm and the 3200 has.
I would think that at 6000 rpm both should be close to each other.
John
When locked all converters will be equally efficient or should be.
If you measure the efficiency (unlocked) of a 4400 and a 3200 stall at 4000rpm the 3200 will be much more efficient. This is because the 4400 has not yet reached its hydraulic coupling rpm and the 3200 has.
I would think that at 6000 rpm both should be close to each other.
John
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From: Your Reality Check Bounced...
Originally Posted by JNorris
At what RPM?
