going from T56 to 4L80e ????
05-19-2010, 11:55 AM
#1
going from T56 to 4L80e ???? hi there folks
I am currently researching how to go do this swap in the car. Its a 98 formula that used to be automatic.
I already ordered a Transmission and a Circle D converter and they will be shipped on Friday; also I have the pedals and the shifter assembly ready to be mounted.
1.my questions are about the tranny cooler....which one you recommend for ease of installation? Im not going to be using the radiator so it will be the only way the tranny will be cooled.
2. what about a dust cover for the tranny? do I need to get one? anyone have a part number for it?
3. as far as PCM. I want to have someone flash a stock 4l60e file since I was reading that there is a way to properly controlling this one like that....any more info on this would be appreciated.
4. Who can do the flashing for me? any recommendations as to what is the easiest way to get this done?
hope I can get some answers to some of the questions.
thanks in advance
David
I am currently researching how to go do this swap in the car. Its a 98 formula that used to be automatic.
I already ordered a Transmission and a Circle D converter and they will be shipped on Friday; also I have the pedals and the shifter assembly ready to be mounted.
1.my questions are about the tranny cooler....which one you recommend for ease of installation? Im not going to be using the radiator so it will be the only way the tranny will be cooled.
2. what about a dust cover for the tranny? do I need to get one? anyone have a part number for it?
3. as far as PCM. I want to have someone flash a stock 4l60e file since I was reading that there is a way to properly controlling this one like that....any more info on this would be appreciated.
4. Who can do the flashing for me? any recommendations as to what is the easiest way to get this done?
hope I can get some answers to some of the questions.
thanks in advance
David
05-20-2010, 10:03 PM
#2
hi there folks
I am currently researching how to go do this swap in the car. Its a 98 formula that used to be automatic.
I already ordered a Transmission and a Circle D converter and they will be shipped on Friday; also I have the pedals and the shifter assembly ready to be mounted.
1.my questions are about the tranny cooler....which one you recommend for ease of installation? Im not going to be using the radiator so it will be the only way the tranny will be cooled.
I bought this 24 inch long dual pass cylindrical thing off ebay. It worked so so.I mounted it behind the air dam.I think it would work better if put some holes thru the air dam to get some air over it.
I also went with trans cooler built into my new ron davis rad. I know some guys just like to run aux coolers but I drive the car in spring and fall and it gets cold so wanted to heat up the trans a bit by going thru the rad.I guess it runs hotter this way and might increase my engine temps as well but
whatever. If you want to run only one big primary cooling might want to get one with temp bypass so it lets fluid thru when its cold out. Also you might want a fan cooled cooler. Some guys mount them dope style. Search dope style. Some guys run two aux coolers.
2. what about a dust cover for the tranny? do I need to get one? anyone have a part number for it?
dust cover is good idea. I got one from wrecked truck. It fit perfect.Its the cast one. Bolted up great and to engine as well. There are two part numbers I think , cast one like I got and think thin tin one? It keeps rocks away from flexpate and converter. Feel nakes without one on a street car.
3. as far as PCM. I want to have someone flash a stock 4l60e file since I was reading that there is a way to properly controlling this one like that....any more info on this would be appreciated.
You get hptuners and they blend a 4l60 file with a 4l80 truck file. That works great. No problems.
I got wiring conversion harness from sponsor on the board but forgetting who now. You need that too. Also you have to shave the trans ears to clear the tunnel. You have to notch frame where the big plug goes. If you don' use 90 degree fitting you will also need to clearance where fittings go on passenger side. I used 90s. but also you have to put in tube like the stock ones if you have newer 4l80 on back fitting.
4. Who can do the flashing for me? any recommendations as to what is the easiest way to get this done?
Hptuners is only one that can flash the tune for you or you could use someone elses blended file if you had hptuners but would have to write their file over your car and still have to pay for their file.
hope I can get some answers to some of the questions.
thanks in advance
David
I am currently researching how to go do this swap in the car. Its a 98 formula that used to be automatic.
I already ordered a Transmission and a Circle D converter and they will be shipped on Friday; also I have the pedals and the shifter assembly ready to be mounted.
1.my questions are about the tranny cooler....which one you recommend for ease of installation? Im not going to be using the radiator so it will be the only way the tranny will be cooled.
I bought this 24 inch long dual pass cylindrical thing off ebay. It worked so so.I mounted it behind the air dam.I think it would work better if put some holes thru the air dam to get some air over it.
I also went with trans cooler built into my new ron davis rad. I know some guys just like to run aux coolers but I drive the car in spring and fall and it gets cold so wanted to heat up the trans a bit by going thru the rad.I guess it runs hotter this way and might increase my engine temps as well but
whatever. If you want to run only one big primary cooling might want to get one with temp bypass so it lets fluid thru when its cold out. Also you might want a fan cooled cooler. Some guys mount them dope style. Search dope style. Some guys run two aux coolers.
2. what about a dust cover for the tranny? do I need to get one? anyone have a part number for it?
dust cover is good idea. I got one from wrecked truck. It fit perfect.Its the cast one. Bolted up great and to engine as well. There are two part numbers I think , cast one like I got and think thin tin one? It keeps rocks away from flexpate and converter. Feel nakes without one on a street car.
3. as far as PCM. I want to have someone flash a stock 4l60e file since I was reading that there is a way to properly controlling this one like that....any more info on this would be appreciated.
You get hptuners and they blend a 4l60 file with a 4l80 truck file. That works great. No problems.
I got wiring conversion harness from sponsor on the board but forgetting who now. You need that too. Also you have to shave the trans ears to clear the tunnel. You have to notch frame where the big plug goes. If you don' use 90 degree fitting you will also need to clearance where fittings go on passenger side. I used 90s. but also you have to put in tube like the stock ones if you have newer 4l80 on back fitting.
4. Who can do the flashing for me? any recommendations as to what is the easiest way to get this done?
Hptuners is only one that can flash the tune for you or you could use someone elses blended file if you had hptuners but would have to write their file over your car and still have to pay for their file.
hope I can get some answers to some of the questions.
thanks in advance
David
I used stock rubber trans mount. It hit the bmr crossmember and made bad vibes. I got these ear things off the stock mount. I also had to notch the bmr crossmember to move it backward it was too close to the trans pan and trans case.I filed the pan and case a bit as well. Seems to be ok now.
I used the long lokar 36 inch dipstick. I didn't use the mounting bracket on cowl easier to fill if its not in that but likely put that on and keep it there then take it out to fill. I bought the shorter lokar by accident at first. It works but is a serious pain to fill .I don't seem to have any problems with the long dipstick. Its good to recheck readings after awhile as when you are filling they might be a bit off because of the way the tube goes. But it works. It think you can get stock dipstick to work but it is tough to get it in there.
My combo is rpm top of line 4l80e and yank py3400e stall.
Only real problems with the install were no fuse in my conversion harness had me pulling some teeth out. I easily hooked up neutral saftey and backup lights. So far do not have my shift lock solenoid working or the park lock cable hooked up. Will likely do that sooner or later. The neutral safey is critical and to be track legal.
I had to do a bit of extra clearancing on my trans for my turbo kit. Also had to clearance the dust cover a bit because of my kit mostly.
I would like to get a deeper trans pan but most out there are really deep. The derale with its cooling fins sounds great but no shallow version offered so far. I may get this other one that found that is shallower think huges makes it? It might give me a bit more cooling . But as said going to drill some holes in my airdam to direct bit of flow over the cooler.
Think that about covers it. I used speed inc flexplate , think lots of guys run the tci. My stall bolted to it directly it was 4l80 to ls1 stall.
I love my auto swap ,was really sick of my t56. Oh yeah made plate for the shifter hole. pedal swap was pretty easy. I used stock shifter. Like how stock it looks.And I don't want to manually shift it.
05-20-2010, 11:14 PM
#3
fwiw Rossler has a pan for the 4L80 that is made by moroso. Think it holds two extra quarts and seems to be much more shallow than most. It's a fabbed aluminum pan. Im getting one when im ready to install my trans brake.
Do you have any info on the yank crossmembe? The BMR sounds like a pita.
Do you have any info on the yank crossmembe? The BMR sounds like a pita.
05-21-2010, 01:48 AM
#4
Yes seen the rossler pan . Wanted a finned one and found the hughes might try it. I really wanted to use derale with the cooling tubes but its so far only offered in deep style.
The yank only has provisions for tunnel mount torque arm.I wanted to have crossmember mount long torque arm.
The bmr was not too bad once slotted the holes so could move it toward back of car. and really only filed on the trans pan,case just a little bit to ensure clearance.
Bmr was awesome company to deal with and have passed on the slotting of the holes in the 4l80 crossmember so maybe they will on next batch. Yank has no trans pan issues but dont have torque arm provision don't think.
The yank only has provisions for tunnel mount torque arm.I wanted to have crossmember mount long torque arm.
The bmr was not too bad once slotted the holes so could move it toward back of car. and really only filed on the trans pan,case just a little bit to ensure clearance.
Bmr was awesome company to deal with and have passed on the slotting of the holes in the 4l80 crossmember so maybe they will on next batch. Yank has no trans pan issues but dont have torque arm provision don't think.
05-21-2010, 11:10 AM
#5
thanks for the response. I currently have a custom crossmember on the T56 that I am going to modify to fit.
the Torque Arm is tunnel mounted with the Midwest setup.
I am going to run the TCI wide bolt pattern flexplate ---already got it.
the PCM is going to be flashed with the 4l60e software and will be repinning the PCM since its a 98.
here is a picture of the tail shaft of the trans....which slip yoke do I need in order to fit my PST 3.5" Drive Shaft?
[IMG]
[/IMG]
OTHER than that I think I got everything covered....I will post more information as I do this swap for others to reference.
thanks
the Torque Arm is tunnel mounted with the Midwest setup.
I am going to run the TCI wide bolt pattern flexplate ---already got it.
the PCM is going to be flashed with the 4l60e software and will be repinning the PCM since its a 98.
here is a picture of the tail shaft of the trans....which slip yoke do I need in order to fit my PST 3.5" Drive Shaft?
[IMG]
[/IMG]OTHER than that I think I got everything covered....I will post more information as I do this swap for others to reference.
thanks
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06-22-2010, 05:59 PM
#8
ok the slip Yoke was not hard to find. I got one with the 1350 yoke.
spicer part numbers:
2-3-10431x 1310 series small u-joint
3-3-2431x 1350 series big u-joint (preferred)
on another note, the Tuner downloaded the 4l60e file onto the 98 PCM and did some other editing but when I took it for a ride, the tranny was stuck in 2nd gear. the speedometer did not read. He said he was going to work on it and come back with it completed and try again.
I had to clear the tunnel where the big plug was located, also needed to extend the harness bc the stock one did not reach. (drivers side)
the passanger side was also an area I had to cut a little for the rear transmission fitting to clear.
the actual Physical swap was not a big deal. I dropped the tranny about 3 times bc I had to do some measuring and what not. I also forgot to install the pilot extender for the TC so that was another drop right there.
The shifter I am using is the stock shifter, It is mounted to clear the T56 top console bc I was unable to find an Auto one and actually didnt wanted to fight the alignment part of it.
the crossmember was actually made by Midwest Chassis and performance. They made me one that fit like a glove. The torque arm I have is tunnel mounted with their rear end so that part was not a problem at all.
The only time consuming snag was the damn Crank Freeze plug on the eagle Crank. It was leaking some oil so I had to take it out and replace it with a new one from GM. the replacement was not a problem as was finding the correct size and having the right tool.
I learned a lot from doing this bc I had to deal with some problems along the way. Overall I am glad I have the car buttoned up and ready to be driven. But so far I have not really driven the car at all except to see if the tune worked. I am glad I went this route and hope to see that everything works in the end.....
spicer part numbers:
2-3-10431x 1310 series small u-joint
3-3-2431x 1350 series big u-joint (preferred)
on another note, the Tuner downloaded the 4l60e file onto the 98 PCM and did some other editing but when I took it for a ride, the tranny was stuck in 2nd gear. the speedometer did not read. He said he was going to work on it and come back with it completed and try again.
I had to clear the tunnel where the big plug was located, also needed to extend the harness bc the stock one did not reach. (drivers side)
the passanger side was also an area I had to cut a little for the rear transmission fitting to clear.
the actual Physical swap was not a big deal. I dropped the tranny about 3 times bc I had to do some measuring and what not. I also forgot to install the pilot extender for the TC so that was another drop right there.
The shifter I am using is the stock shifter, It is mounted to clear the T56 top console bc I was unable to find an Auto one and actually didnt wanted to fight the alignment part of it.
the crossmember was actually made by Midwest Chassis and performance. They made me one that fit like a glove. The torque arm I have is tunnel mounted with their rear end so that part was not a problem at all.
The only time consuming snag was the damn Crank Freeze plug on the eagle Crank. It was leaking some oil so I had to take it out and replace it with a new one from GM. the replacement was not a problem as was finding the correct size and having the right tool.
I learned a lot from doing this bc I had to deal with some problems along the way. Overall I am glad I have the car buttoned up and ready to be driven. But so far I have not really driven the car at all except to see if the tune worked. I am glad I went this route and hope to see that everything works in the end.....
06-22-2010, 06:35 PM
#9
ok the slip Yoke was not hard to find. I got one with the 1350 yoke.
spicer part numbers:
2-3-10431x 1310 series small u-joint
3-3-2431x 1350 series big u-joint (preferred)
on another note, the Tuner downloaded the 4l60e file onto the 98 PCM and did some other editing but when I took it for a ride, the tranny was stuck in 2nd gear. the speedometer did not read. He said he was going to work on it and come back with it completed and try again.
I had to clear the tunnel where the big plug was located, also needed to extend the harness bc the stock one did not reach. (drivers side)
the passanger side was also an area I had to cut a little for the rear transmission fitting to clear.
the actual Physical swap was not a big deal. I dropped the tranny about 3 times bc I had to do some measuring and what not. I also forgot to install the pilot extender for the TC so that was another drop right there.
The shifter I am using is the stock shifter, It is mounted to clear the T56 top console bc I was unable to find an Auto one and actually didnt wanted to fight the alignment part of it.
the crossmember was actually made by Midwest Chassis and performance. They made me one that fit like a glove. The torque arm I have is tunnel mounted with their rear end so that part was not a problem at all.
The only time consuming snag was the damn Crank Freeze plug on the eagle Crank. It was leaking some oil so I had to take it out and replace it with a new one from GM. the replacement was not a problem as was finding the correct size and having the right tool.
I learned a lot from doing this bc I had to deal with some problems along the way. Overall I am glad I have the car buttoned up and ready to be driven. But so far I have not really driven the car at all except to see if the tune worked. I am glad I went this route and hope to see that everything works in the end.....
spicer part numbers:
2-3-10431x 1310 series small u-joint
3-3-2431x 1350 series big u-joint (preferred)
on another note, the Tuner downloaded the 4l60e file onto the 98 PCM and did some other editing but when I took it for a ride, the tranny was stuck in 2nd gear. the speedometer did not read. He said he was going to work on it and come back with it completed and try again.
I had to clear the tunnel where the big plug was located, also needed to extend the harness bc the stock one did not reach. (drivers side)
the passanger side was also an area I had to cut a little for the rear transmission fitting to clear.
the actual Physical swap was not a big deal. I dropped the tranny about 3 times bc I had to do some measuring and what not. I also forgot to install the pilot extender for the TC so that was another drop right there.
The shifter I am using is the stock shifter, It is mounted to clear the T56 top console bc I was unable to find an Auto one and actually didnt wanted to fight the alignment part of it.
the crossmember was actually made by Midwest Chassis and performance. They made me one that fit like a glove. The torque arm I have is tunnel mounted with their rear end so that part was not a problem at all.
The only time consuming snag was the damn Crank Freeze plug on the eagle Crank. It was leaking some oil so I had to take it out and replace it with a new one from GM. the replacement was not a problem as was finding the correct size and having the right tool.
I learned a lot from doing this bc I had to deal with some problems along the way. Overall I am glad I have the car buttoned up and ready to be driven. But so far I have not really driven the car at all except to see if the tune worked. I am glad I went this route and hope to see that everything works in the end.....
06-22-2010, 06:54 PM
#10
Umm don't think you can use a 4l60 tune but not 100% on that .You get a blended file with 4l80 truck done by hptuners.
My 99 tune file was incompatible with the blending so installed a 2002 f body file blended with the 4l80 and everything works as it should.
It is a pretty simple swap. Just a bit of time making up plates for shifter hole and
made one for master block off in firewall. I used t56 to 4l80 harness. I used bmr crossmber and bmr torque arm mounted on crossmember. I used 36 inch firewall dipstick from lokar. Didn't need any pilot adapter used speed inc flywheel and my converter was 4l80 to ls1 from yank. I made up 90 degree fitting for back of trans an 90 but put a tube in it like the factory has. I didn't have to clearance passenger side since did the 90 degree thing. You do have to do a lot on the drivers side for that big plug and rpm cut the ears off my trans for clearance.I had to do a bit of additional because of my aps twin turbo kit. I also installed a dust cover the cast aluminum one. It fit fine.
I am kicking around a bit deeper pan found one that is not super deep. I was planning to use the deral with the cooling tubes but its a deep pan and not sure if it will cause ground clearance problems. My stock pan has no drain plug. Could install one but a nice cast pan with aluminum fins would give thing bit extra cooling.
I also had some problems on linkage because have the short rod or long rod?? forget now . Had do dick around with ball and think used a b and m linkage rod not f body auto one. I used stock shifter, stock shifter cable. Hooked up neutral safety and back up lights. Might hook up the shift lock solenoid thing at some point and the park lock cable.
Not essential the last two things. The reverse lights are handy and the neutral safety is required for track runs and of course its a good idea to have a neutral safety.
I love my 4l80 and don't miss my six speed at all.
My 99 tune file was incompatible with the blending so installed a 2002 f body file blended with the 4l80 and everything works as it should.
It is a pretty simple swap. Just a bit of time making up plates for shifter hole and
made one for master block off in firewall. I used t56 to 4l80 harness. I used bmr crossmber and bmr torque arm mounted on crossmember. I used 36 inch firewall dipstick from lokar. Didn't need any pilot adapter used speed inc flywheel and my converter was 4l80 to ls1 from yank. I made up 90 degree fitting for back of trans an 90 but put a tube in it like the factory has. I didn't have to clearance passenger side since did the 90 degree thing. You do have to do a lot on the drivers side for that big plug and rpm cut the ears off my trans for clearance.I had to do a bit of additional because of my aps twin turbo kit. I also installed a dust cover the cast aluminum one. It fit fine.
I am kicking around a bit deeper pan found one that is not super deep. I was planning to use the deral with the cooling tubes but its a deep pan and not sure if it will cause ground clearance problems. My stock pan has no drain plug. Could install one but a nice cast pan with aluminum fins would give thing bit extra cooling.
I also had some problems on linkage because have the short rod or long rod?? forget now . Had do dick around with ball and think used a b and m linkage rod not f body auto one. I used stock shifter, stock shifter cable. Hooked up neutral safety and back up lights. Might hook up the shift lock solenoid thing at some point and the park lock cable.
Not essential the last two things. The reverse lights are handy and the neutral safety is required for track runs and of course its a good idea to have a neutral safety.
I love my 4l80 and don't miss my six speed at all.
06-22-2010, 09:16 PM
#11
sweet. man, I actually know that you can use the 98 file for a 4l60e and control the 4l80e. I have been talking to someone who has helped me a lot with this regarding that issue. I will finish it on Thursday when the tuner comes again.
The lokar cable I got was the 24 inch. I dont think its a pain in the *** to fill, Maybe bc I use one of those long *** funnels.
I did have to splice the harness and also add a relay at the harness near the plug. and deleted some codes from the stock 60e file.
I still dont have a dust shield but I will be getting one later. I am trying to get it running good before I finish the details.
I do have the park lock cable hooked up and working.
the shift lock selenoid is not working for some reason. I plugged it like it was before and it does not allow me to shift into any gear, it looks like it is locked when the car is running but I am able to change gears with the key on the ACC position...
I just disconnected it for now. I will figure it out later or just take it out lol.
The ears were cut for me as well, I had to do nothing to the transmission really. the rear cooling line was also a 90* but it extended out to much and was actually touching the tunnel a little bit so I decided to clear it for that.
The lokar cable I got was the 24 inch. I dont think its a pain in the *** to fill, Maybe bc I use one of those long *** funnels.
I did have to splice the harness and also add a relay at the harness near the plug. and deleted some codes from the stock 60e file.
I still dont have a dust shield but I will be getting one later. I am trying to get it running good before I finish the details.
I do have the park lock cable hooked up and working.
the shift lock selenoid is not working for some reason. I plugged it like it was before and it does not allow me to shift into any gear, it looks like it is locked when the car is running but I am able to change gears with the key on the ACC position...
I just disconnected it for now. I will figure it out later or just take it out lol.
The ears were cut for me as well, I had to do nothing to the transmission really. the rear cooling line was also a 90* but it extended out to much and was actually touching the tunnel a little bit so I decided to clear it for that.
06-22-2010, 09:20 PM
#12
slow67:
the speedometer is plugged in the rear plug on the 4l80e. that is the correct plug right. I am going to recheck the wires later tomorrow and see if maybe they got cut or something. I know that the rest of the harness is in good shape bc I made sure to give it plenty of clearance when I extended them to reach the tranny plug.
the speedometer is plugged in the rear plug on the 4l80e. that is the correct plug right. I am going to recheck the wires later tomorrow and see if maybe they got cut or something. I know that the rest of the harness is in good shape bc I made sure to give it plenty of clearance when I extended them to reach the tranny plug.
06-22-2010, 09:44 PM
#13
sweet. man, I actually know that you can use the 98 file for a 4l60e and control the 4l80e. I have been talking to someone who has helped me a lot with this regarding that issue. I will finish it on Thursday when the tuner comes again.
The lokar cable I got was the 24 inch. I dont think its a pain in the *** to fill, Maybe bc I use one of those long *** funnels.
I did have to splice the harness and also add a relay at the harness near the plug. and deleted some codes from the stock 60e file.
I still dont have a dust shield but I will be getting one later. I am trying to get it running good before I finish the details.
I do have the park lock cable hooked up and working.
the shift lock selenoid is not working for some reason. I plugged it like it was before and it does not allow me to shift into any gear, it looks like it is locked when the car is running but I am able to change gears with the key on the ACC position...
I just disconnected it for now. I will figure it out later or just take it out lol.
The ears were cut for me as well, I had to do nothing to the transmission really. the rear cooling line was also a 90* but it extended out to much and was actually touching the tunnel a little bit so I decided to clear it for that.
The lokar cable I got was the 24 inch. I dont think its a pain in the *** to fill, Maybe bc I use one of those long *** funnels.
I did have to splice the harness and also add a relay at the harness near the plug. and deleted some codes from the stock 60e file.
I still dont have a dust shield but I will be getting one later. I am trying to get it running good before I finish the details.
I do have the park lock cable hooked up and working.
the shift lock selenoid is not working for some reason. I plugged it like it was before and it does not allow me to shift into any gear, it looks like it is locked when the car is running but I am able to change gears with the key on the ACC position...
I just disconnected it for now. I will figure it out later or just take it out lol.
The ears were cut for me as well, I had to do nothing to the transmission really. the rear cooling line was also a 90* but it extended out to much and was actually touching the tunnel a little bit so I decided to clear it for that.
Sorry should read the whole thread but to save some time.
Your car was t56 car right? So I bought the park lock cable but don't I need some piece in the column to hook it into?
Also what wiring harness did you use..4l60 harness then convertered to 4l80. I used lsxtune harness. I think can get my shift lock solenoid to work but it was tricky and had to think run some wires from ecu. I am not too worried about that but would like everything to work like a factory auto car.
I got that 24 inch lokar by accident first and didn't like it much. Filling it was a bit pain we used like a hospital intervenous setup. And checking it was pain. Much better with the 36 inch one.
So have to report back on how that wavetrac is working for you. How streetable it is.
Thanks again Slow67!
07-14-2011, 09:55 AM
#18
You have to have a segment swap it uses the front vss sensor for input speed and will not work without it, which requires wires added going up to the pcm,The 4l60e is not the same PCM control as the 4l80e.The only exception is when you have a transbrake,You need the front VSS sensor input in order to shift.
Last edited by KRAZY K 2000 TA; 07-14-2011 at 10:01 AM.
