which direction to install a few parts 4l80e
08-15-2010, 08:50 PM
#1
which direction to install a few parts 4l80e might be some dumb questions but here goes for an early 2000 4l80e
1) the bearing that goes between the rear ring gear and rear plant shows the cup side going to the rear ring gear on my diagram. However when installing it that way the 3 teeth that come off the bearing will block some of the 4 oil holes in the ring gear. Should this be flipped the other way so the cupped side goes against the sun gear and all 4 holes in the ring gear can flow because the centering teeth will now sit a few thousands off the rear ring gear?
2)I bought a new main shaft listed for 1999-Up (1.083" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop) which me having a 2000 should be correct.
however it is longer then the old main shaft and doesn't allow the interm sun gear shaft to come up high enough so the direct drum doesn't rub on the center support. I put the old shaft back in and then the direct drum stays off the center support. Now wittrans lists (Main Shaft, 4L80E (10 3/16" Long, No Lube Hole) 1997-98 (1.093" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop)) Should I have gotten this one even though it's listed as not fitting my 2000 year? Or could they have sent me the wrong one?
3)The sun gear is perfectly flush on one end and has a tiny bit of inner tapper on the other. Remind me does the tappered end go on the bearing and the perfectly flush end against the interm sun gear shaft so it sits up as high as possible?
1) the bearing that goes between the rear ring gear and rear plant shows the cup side going to the rear ring gear on my diagram. However when installing it that way the 3 teeth that come off the bearing will block some of the 4 oil holes in the ring gear. Should this be flipped the other way so the cupped side goes against the sun gear and all 4 holes in the ring gear can flow because the centering teeth will now sit a few thousands off the rear ring gear?
2)I bought a new main shaft listed for 1999-Up (1.083" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop) which me having a 2000 should be correct.
however it is longer then the old main shaft and doesn't allow the interm sun gear shaft to come up high enough so the direct drum doesn't rub on the center support. I put the old shaft back in and then the direct drum stays off the center support. Now wittrans lists (Main Shaft, 4L80E (10 3/16" Long, No Lube Hole) 1997-98 (1.093" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop)) Should I have gotten this one even though it's listed as not fitting my 2000 year? Or could they have sent me the wrong one?
3)The sun gear is perfectly flush on one end and has a tiny bit of inner tapper on the other. Remind me does the tappered end go on the bearing and the perfectly flush end against the interm sun gear shaft so it sits up as high as possible?
08-15-2010, 10:32 PM
#2
might be some dumb questions but here goes for an early 2000 4l80e
1) the bearing that goes between the rear ring gear and rear plant shows the cup side going to the rear ring gear on my diagram. However when installing it that way the 3 teeth that come off the bearing will block some of the 4 oil holes in the ring gear. Should this be flipped the other way so the cupped side goes against the sun gear and all 4 holes in the ring gear can flow because the centering teeth will now sit a few thousands off the rear ring gear?
2)I bought a new main shaft listed for 1999-Up (1.083" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop) which me having a 2000 should be correct.
however it is longer then the old main shaft and doesn't allow the interm sun gear shaft to come up high enough so the direct drum doesn't rub on the center support. I put the old shaft back in and then the direct drum stays off the center support. Now wittrans lists (Main Shaft, 4L80E (10 3/16" Long, No Lube Hole) 1997-98 (1.093" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop)) Should I have gotten this one even though it's listed as not fitting my 2000 year? Or could they have sent me the wrong one?
3)The sun gear is perfectly flush on one end and has a tiny bit of inner tapper on the other. Remind me does the tappered end go on the bearing and the perfectly flush end against the interm sun gear shaft so it sits up as high as possible?
1) the bearing that goes between the rear ring gear and rear plant shows the cup side going to the rear ring gear on my diagram. However when installing it that way the 3 teeth that come off the bearing will block some of the 4 oil holes in the ring gear. Should this be flipped the other way so the cupped side goes against the sun gear and all 4 holes in the ring gear can flow because the centering teeth will now sit a few thousands off the rear ring gear?
2)I bought a new main shaft listed for 1999-Up (1.083" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop) which me having a 2000 should be correct.
however it is longer then the old main shaft and doesn't allow the interm sun gear shaft to come up high enough so the direct drum doesn't rub on the center support. I put the old shaft back in and then the direct drum stays off the center support. Now wittrans lists (Main Shaft, 4L80E (10 3/16" Long, No Lube Hole) 1997-98 (1.093" From End of Shaft to Forward Clutch Hub Stop)) Should I have gotten this one even though it's listed as not fitting my 2000 year? Or could they have sent me the wrong one?
3)The sun gear is perfectly flush on one end and has a tiny bit of inner tapper on the other. Remind me does the tappered end go on the bearing and the perfectly flush end against the interm sun gear shaft so it sits up as high as possible?
2. I personally do not believe the main shaft length was a problem nor have I ever noticed it. Maybe I have just been lucky. I will have to measure some to see this for myself. For referrence in both my atsg and atra all main shafts 97 and later are the same.
The sun gear shafts are different between 97/98 to 99 and up. This shaft would be the one I would be concerned with because it is the one that supports the direct drum. The main shaft supports the forward clutch hub to the forward drum.
One check to preform on the bench is to measure with a feeler gauge between the top of the center support to the stop on the sun gear shaft for the direct drum. It should measure .050. If it does not you have something mismatched or not stacked correctly.
3. I think that you might have had the sun gear flipped if everything else was done correctly. The flat side goes against the sun gear shaft. This is why your direct drum was rubbing if I had to guess.
08-16-2010, 06:25 AM
#3
we had tried the sun gear both ways to gain height, we tried both rear ring gears to gain height in case one was machined wrong(i had two). No matter what the direct drum would rub.
It doesn't make any sense to me either but we did it in the tranny over and over and over and on the bench over and over and the main shaft is the only thing that made the direct drum not touch.
I agree it makes zero sense, but the new main shaft was definitely a few thousands taller then the old main shaft. Easily could lay a straight edge across both and have complete day light show under one of them.
1)back to that rear ring gear bearing would it cause a failure being in upside down like I said? It appears the rear ring gear is raised where the bearing rides so even being upside down it wouldn't touch anything. I just have a phobia of blocking passages even if it's only partial.
It doesn't make any sense to me either but we did it in the tranny over and over and over and on the bench over and over and the main shaft is the only thing that made the direct drum not touch.
I agree it makes zero sense, but the new main shaft was definitely a few thousands taller then the old main shaft. Easily could lay a straight edge across both and have complete day light show under one of them.
1)back to that rear ring gear bearing would it cause a failure being in upside down like I said? It appears the rear ring gear is raised where the bearing rides so even being upside down it wouldn't touch anything. I just have a phobia of blocking passages even if it's only partial.
Last edited by Aaron91RS; 08-16-2010 at 07:43 AM.
08-16-2010, 07:48 AM
#4
we had tried the sun gear both ways to gain height, we tried both rear ring gears to gain height in case one was machined wrong(i had two). No matter what the direct drum would rub.
It doesn't make any sense to me either but we did it in the tranny over and over and over and on the bench over and over and the main shaft is the only thing that made the direct drum not touch.
I agree it makes zero sense, but the new main shaft was definitly a few thousands taller then the old main shaft. Easily could lay a straight edge across both and have complete day light show under one of them.
1)back to that rear ring gear bearing would it cause a failure being in upside down like I said? It appears the rear ring gear is raised where the bearing rides so even being upside down it wouldn't touch anything. I just have a phobia of blocking passages even if it's oly partial.
It doesn't make any sense to me either but we did it in the tranny over and over and over and on the bench over and over and the main shaft is the only thing that made the direct drum not touch.
I agree it makes zero sense, but the new main shaft was definitly a few thousands taller then the old main shaft. Easily could lay a straight edge across both and have complete day light show under one of them.
1)back to that rear ring gear bearing would it cause a failure being in upside down like I said? It appears the rear ring gear is raised where the bearing rides so even being upside down it wouldn't touch anything. I just have a phobia of blocking passages even if it's oly partial.
Make sure that every bearing assembly you have has all three pieces for the assembly. You should have three thrust washers. One between the front planet and the center support. One between the two planets and also one behind the output shaft. You should have a selective three tang washer installed in the back of the case for the washer against the output shaft. The last piece is the shim that rides on the ring gear with all three bearing pieces for it's assembly. So a total of 4 should be in this location.
1. I would not install this assembly upside down. This might create debris that will be forced into the bushing area for the ring gear to output shaft assembly. The lube oil going to the output shaft is really not that much oil so I would not be worried with the shim blocking any of the 4 holes. Hell GM built how many of these units this way. Why re-engineer the wheel?
I can not see how a factory main shaft without a lube hole could cause this issue. They are per atsg and atra all the same for 97^ units. Remember that the height of this shaft is really between the stop for the ring gear and the stop for the forward clutch hum.
The sun gear shaft, all the bearings, shim for the ring gear in 99 and later units, thrust washers and the selective shim in the back of the case to set end play are what make up the height for the support of the direct drum. Not the main shaft. The only other part that could cause build height issues to be short here was if you were using a 97 to 98 center support.
I honestly do not know what else to tell you other than send it to me or a qualified builder if you can not figure it out. Are you still using factory planets?
I had an issue with a tci gear set a couple of weeks back similar to this. The issue was the planet was improperly machined for a bearing that they install between the two planets. Per my customer the gear set is being sent back so they can correct it. Other wise I would have to machine it to make it fit and hopefully work. He paid a lot of money for this and I left the decision up to him. Vince
Edit just looked at a couple shafts here at FLT and also WIT's site again. The difference in the two main shafts is the length from the stop for the forward clutch hub to the end of the splines inside the hub. This will not effect build height. I believe you will find your issue in the advise I gave above. Vince
Last edited by FLT; 08-16-2010 at 09:02 AM. Reason: added info on the shaft lenghth
08-16-2010, 10:01 AM
#5
I feel like I should donate $10 for wasting your time with questions. What's your paypal?
your help speaks volumes for your customer service.
Just to clairify one thing and I am at work right now so I don't have the actual trans in front of me so it may in fact be right.
Are you saying this picture is wrong and that there should be one more shim between 252 and 594 that is not shown in the pic? Or are you just talking about the plastic washer I have a pic of below.
(again not home to check just going by this pic while reading your reply and matching stuff up)
I think this is what you mean when you said total of 4 pieces. 3 piece bearing and plastic washer is what was sandwiched in there? Anything missing here? (obviously the parts are bad thus the new ones)
The replacement for the plastic washer is now metal(i'm told that's how the new kits come) maybe that makes a difference.
Last edited by Aaron91RS; 08-16-2010 at 10:25 AM.
