drive or OD for track?
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 916
Likes: 5
From: Las Vegas, NV
I do think you'll be just fine. But, please do consult with your engine bulder and Tuner on this. Now, that being said I personally would not be happy with a high performance v8 anything that I couldn't twist to 7k and not have to worry about it. But that's me... it's not my budget here right! :-)
I do not care who builds it, don't care what billet this or bad *** that they put in it either... and in the end it doesn't matter what gear shift lever position you have it in if you make good power and can stick that power when you whack it. I have blown all those parts up and so have the best of the best builders.
The best 4L60E ever built by anyone is and will ever only be as good as the 5 forward clutches, the best dual cage input sprag known to man, the inner and outer races that sprag interacts with and the 2 over running clutches that are on when the custom Sonnax valve is installed and or you place the shifter in the "3" or "D" position.
Besides the 3/4 clutches, the single most common failure I see in my oldest performance units is a slipping input sprag. And that leads to smoked forward and over running clutches. So.....
All any builder can do is help a guy to help himself. I highly recommend to all my clients to not not force a downshift at wide open throttle in any shifter position. Think about it.... was the transmission designed to downshift or upshift? So that being said....
If you must roll race, release the throttle allowing the car to slow down. When you feel that the engine rpm's match the mph then select a lower gear. And then take it WOT. If you are racing from a stop then the best thing you can do to protect your investment is to launch in the "3" or "D" shift lever position.
Sorry for the long dissertation, but the 60E series transmission does have it's limitations... and that's what the builders here have been trying to say all this time. And I consider most of the builders here to be the best of the best. I can't speak for all of the guys out there because I haven't seen their builds and probably do not know them personally.
Hope that helps guys....
g
"Are there any issues with the Transmission reving over 6600 rpm, regardless of gear." i.e. "Don't rev the tranny over 6600 in any gear", etc.
Thanks Gilbert!
P.S. To clarify for the other guy... there are 2 D's on the shift selector. The setup is PRNDD21
The D with the circle around it (right after neutral) is the Overdrive D. The other D is the 3rd gear D. From what I'm hearing, put it in THAT D when racing from a stop. Is that correct Gilbert?
Thanks again.
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 916
Likes: 5
From: Las Vegas, NV
I'm back. Seems that raising my rev limiter may not be enough. I forgot to mention that I have a Yank SS3200 stall. I just had my dyno tune done (recent custom rear mount T76 Turbo put in) and hit 551 rwhp. BUT looking at the video, I'm going to top out 3rd at 115 mph still @ 6400 rpm. (Too much converter slip maybe?) I did have new cam and springs put in (LS9 Cam), but the rest of the engine is stock. Also, had him put in a Transgo shift kit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4-p51QfFk
So... 2 separate questions...
1) How bad is it going to be to allow the car to shift into OD 300 ft before the traps. How about at 3/4 throttle?
2) (Related to spooling my turbo)... How bad is it for the transmission to launch in 2nd gear instead of 1st. Reason - in First gear, I overrun my turbo and dont get any boost with my 4.10 gears. Thought process -> starting in 2nd would be negate the change I made to 4.10 gears and allow the turbo to spool.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
(Note: YES... I know I need to get a different rearend, but I'm racing tonight, first time since turbo put in, and that's not an option right now. Eventually will drop down to a 3.42 rear gear, or lower.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4-p51QfFk
So... 2 separate questions...
1) How bad is it going to be to allow the car to shift into OD 300 ft before the traps. How about at 3/4 throttle?
2) (Related to spooling my turbo)... How bad is it for the transmission to launch in 2nd gear instead of 1st. Reason - in First gear, I overrun my turbo and dont get any boost with my 4.10 gears. Thought process -> starting in 2nd would be negate the change I made to 4.10 gears and allow the turbo to spool.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
(Note: YES... I know I need to get a different rearend, but I'm racing tonight, first time since turbo put in, and that's not an option right now. Eventually will drop down to a 3.42 rear gear, or lower.)
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Depending on car model, some are labelled P-R-N-OD-D-2-1 and others P-R-N-D-3-2-1...
to avoid confusion, the lever position can be referred to as "Manual 4th", "Manual 3rd", etc.
(and simply saying "3rd" is making a reference to 3rd gear as selected/sequenced by the PCM).
to avoid confusion, the lever position can be referred to as "Manual 4th", "Manual 3rd", etc.
(and simply saying "3rd" is making a reference to 3rd gear as selected/sequenced by the PCM).
9 Second Club
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 3
From: Joliet,IL and Las Vegas 50/50
I'm back. Seems that raising my rev limiter may not be enough. I forgot to mention that I have a Yank SS3200 stall. I just had my dyno tune done (recent custom rear mount T76 Turbo put in) and hit 551 rwhp. BUT looking at the video, I'm going to top out 3rd at 115 mph still @ 6400 rpm. (Too much converter slip maybe?) I did have new cam and springs put in (LS9 Cam), but the rest of the engine is stock. Also, had him put in a Transgo shift kit.
So... 2 separate questions...
1) How bad is it going to be to allow the car to shift into OD 300 ft before the traps. How about at 3/4 throttle?
2) (Related to spooling my turbo)... How bad is it for the transmission to launch in 2nd gear instead of 1st. Reason - in First gear, I overrun my turbo and dont get any boost with my 4.10 gears. Thought process -> starting in 2nd would be negate the change I made to 4.10 gears and allow the turbo to spool.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
(Note: YES... I know I need to get a different rearend, but I'm racing tonight, first time since turbo put in, and that's not an option right now. Eventually will drop down to a 3.42 rear gear, or lower.)
So... 2 separate questions...
1) How bad is it going to be to allow the car to shift into OD 300 ft before the traps. How about at 3/4 throttle?
2) (Related to spooling my turbo)... How bad is it for the transmission to launch in 2nd gear instead of 1st. Reason - in First gear, I overrun my turbo and dont get any boost with my 4.10 gears. Thought process -> starting in 2nd would be negate the change I made to 4.10 gears and allow the turbo to spool.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
(Note: YES... I know I need to get a different rearend, but I'm racing tonight, first time since turbo put in, and that's not an option right now. Eventually will drop down to a 3.42 rear gear, or lower.)
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Todd
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i left it in 3 yesterday and went ***** to the wall.hit the revlimiter around 100mph.i got 2.73 gears.my speedomoter is about 10mph slower than actual speed so i probably hit the limiter around 110.i got concerned as to why i hit the limiter.looked down and i was in 3. "DOH!" homer moment.
Last edited by Leeroyws6; Mar 19, 2012 at 08:28 PM.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 10
From: Maryland
There is no way, I made a thread about that a little while ago and the one guy posted a table that showed all the speeds and the throttle percentage that was needed in order to initiate a downshift. The factory tune makes it so that you have to basically floor it at some speeds in order for the transmission to downshift.
i left it in 3 yesterday and went ***** to the wall.hit the revlimiter around 100mph.i got 2.73 gears.my speedomoter is about 10mph slower than actual speed so i probably hit the limiter around 110.i got concerned as to why i hit the limiter.looked down and i was in 3. "DOH!" homer moment.
I roasted my trans doing that and had it rebuilt. Ill never forget to put it in OD on the highway ever again.
I recomend that you dont do that anymore
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
There is no way, I made a thread about that a little while ago and the one guy posted a table that showed all the speeds and the throttle percentage that was needed in order to initiate a downshift. The factory tune makes it so that you have to basically floor it at some speeds in order for the transmission to downshift.
Todd
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 10
From: Maryland
I guess mines will too, because I'm definitely guilty of doing WOT downshifts on the highway myself. But if it breaks, I think it's safe to say that it's just the result of pure **** poor build quality on GM's part. Because I as the owner will continue to do all I can to take care of it and prolong it's life. But at the end of the day, it's a performance car, I'll be damned if I can't give it a nice WOT downshift from 70-75 to 120 or so when I please.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 411
Likes: 1
From: Louisville KY
I guess mines will too, because I'm definitely guilty of doing WOT downshifts on the highway myself. But if it breaks, I think it's safe to say that it's just the result of pure **** poor build quality on GM's part. Because I as the owner will continue to do all I can to take care of it and prolong it's life. But at the end of the day, it's a performance car, I'll be damned if I can't give it a nice WOT downshift from 70-75 to 120 or so when I please.
Unsubscribed
This thread has confused me. Do you mean that leaving the car in D rather than OD is only utilizing 3 gears? Makes a lot of sense, that's how it feels anyhow if you were to drive my car over 45 mph or so in D. I guess I never gave it too much thought. But is the consensus that I shouldn't use it to manually downshift? I've never tried, it sounds like another way to break it.
I leave it in OD all the time and imagine I would at the track too. And I also have forced the car to downshift on the highway many times.
I leave it in OD all the time and imagine I would at the track too. And I also have forced the car to downshift on the highway many times.
FROM http://performabuilt.com/Technical2008.html
3. Manual shifting of transmission.
Contrary to popular thought, doing this occasionally will not hurt your unit. In fact, there are some instances where it can be beneficial.
For example, when roll racing, bringing on the low clutch by manually putting the transmission into first helps support the low and input sprags. Another example would be during burnouts, as again it will help to support the sprags by turning on the low clutch and the overrun clutch. Placing the transmission in D3 rather than the OD position is always a good idea when using nitrous or turbo/supercharger applications.
Contrary to popular thought, doing this occasionally will not hurt your unit. In fact, there are some instances where it can be beneficial.
For example, when roll racing, bringing on the low clutch by manually putting the transmission into first helps support the low and input sprags. Another example would be during burnouts, as again it will help to support the sprags by turning on the low clutch and the overrun clutch. Placing the transmission in D3 rather than the OD position is always a good idea when using nitrous or turbo/supercharger applications.
