Goatman1970

iTrader: (1)

I don't belive the 80 is just as efficient as the 65... The TH350 and TH400 weren't the same. These should not be the same either...

Again I will ask, what is the difference between 500 ftlbs at 1800 rpm vs 3500 rpm when it comes to a transmission? All the parts are spinning already and it seems to me the faster they spin, the more chance there is for slippage, not the other way around.

Also, you choose a torque converter based on the engines' torque PEAK. So whether it occurs at 1800 rpm or 4500 rpm, the torque converter is supposed to "flash" the engine to that rpm to put it in its "sweet" spot, right? So right off the bat, gas or diesel, the engine is in its peak torque.


3rd time I've asked this question after someone has made that statement and still no clear answer....

71novaguy

iTrader: (2)

Guess I will try and give it a shot. yes, they are rated at the same ft-lb number, but the difference is in application.

Say you have to push your car down the road. You push on it with everything you got, so you have to exert alot of ft-lbs to get the thing rolling.
After it is rolling, you push on it again with all you have. But, since it was already rolling, the total work you put into it was much less. (this assuming both efforts you put the same ft-lbs into it)

These are factors put into the ratings on transmissions. Yes, they can be rated for the same ft-lbs, but the application is much different.

another example, when ford went to the 6.4 diesel, they had to detune the 6.4 by 10 hp (dont know the ft-lb drop) that went into the F450's compared to the f350's because even though the trans was rated for the ft-lbs, the truck could haul a heavier load. with the heavier load and same power as th f-350, the trans was the weak link. By dropping some hp, they could haul more power and keep the transmission alive.

Bersaglieri

iTrader: (13)

EDIT: Dmax + 4L65e is the way to go.

-Dustin-

Goatman1970

iTrader: (1)

I wish you guys would read the posts before you post... Unfortunatley, the both of you just wasted your keyboard life...


The first guy is talking about towing, I've got a car..

The second guy is talking about life behind a 7000-8000 lb truck with a modded diesel engine.. He's talking like I've got a stock transmission.... He's also talking about drag racing for some reason, even though I've never mentioned it..

I guess I'll have to call Performabuilt.. There's only one guy here who has any experience with high torque and the 65E. The rest unfortunatley are going by what they read in a diesel truck magazine it seems..



Thanks anyway fellas. No need in responding unless you've had an experience with what I'm trying to do..

71novaguy

iTrader: (2)

I guess there is no helping morons. I was not talking about towing in the first example, I was breaking it down so complete fucktards can understand it.

The example shows that a transmission built for a diesel is prepared for the low rpm hit in torque (ie, initially getting the car to move) and an auto trans is prepared for the torque to hit after the car is up and moving. Its simple.

But, you can refuse to listen to everyone, put that tranny behind it and wonder why the tranny took a **** because "torque is torque"

Predator T/A

iTrader: (7)

lol only one guy I have built many 4l60e for 10 and even a few 9sec vettes and thatcan be backed up by people on this site if you would like me to entertain you. and to be quite honest the ony reason they didnt go with a bigger trans in those vettes is due to the interchange issues to put an 80e in a vette is just some serious bucks. I am quite sure a few others who have posted on this thread have had some exp with the 4l60e. lol if you notice non of the sponsors have chimed in on this thread because they know the idea is ridiclulous also. This is kinda like trying to beat drums off of rear brakes with a 10 oz hammer its just stupid. get a 4l80e if not then put a 60e in stop asking if its a good idea or if it will wrk and just do it have fun..BTW I build transmissions everyday for a living so I do have expereince in this.

buddyholly

We did read your post. Please read our responses. Even in a car, with no towing involved, the 4l60e will not like the amount of constant torque you are talking about. They do fine occasionally at that torque levels, but not so well ever time you pull away from the stoplight. GM built the 4l80e for a reason. But it may work fine. Go ahead and try it. I think it may last for a while, maybe even a long while if you are easy on it.

Goatman1970

iTrader: (1)

Never asked if it was a good idea or if it will work. Just asked if anyone had done it.

The answer is no.

Getting another trans isn't an option. Possibly going with a 4BT is..


Still have no answer to my question about how torque at 1800 rpm is different than at 4500 rpm... Including from the trans builder.

Constant torque... Every engine make it, including big hp and turbo cars driven on the streets with 65E's. Not sure what the difference would be.. Maybe I just shouldn't ever stop at a sign or a light.. That seems to be the issue..

Predator T/A

iTrader: (7)

because at 4500 rpm the vehicle is moving not at damn near a standstill it is not a difference i ntorque its a difference in when its there. from a take off a gas enbgine will not be at peak torque. we are talking about load vs torque not a difference in torque. put it this way from a standstill with 500ftlbs of torque on a heavy vehicle the parts in the 4l60e are going to be stressing. if you push a vehicle do you strain more to get it moving once it gets moiving you can relax a bit ans just maintain. the 4l60e doesnt have any support whereas a th400 or or 4l80e has a center support where all the shfts ride in giving them support from bowing under high load and torque..All I can say is put the 4l60e in I will bet within 6 months you will be on the board asking how to swap a 4l80e. We are trying to save you money. if you can put a 60e in it then you can put a 4l80e in just as easy. as matter fact the 80 will probably be easier since the controller is already programmed for a 80e. by the time you get the 60e built right and get it setup to work right and with a good converter you will be up in the 4500.00 range easily. you are not going to be able to use a off the shelf converter the converter is going to have to be speacial built and for a good converter you have just dropped a stack there easily. thats not counting the trans and mounting and programming and whatever else. No i have not done this I wouldnt even think of it however I do know the 4l60e and have built many and know what they are capable of handling reliably. remember the 2.2 4 cylinder breaks the hard parts in the 4l60e even though there have been some upgrades in parts there is one part that hasnt been fixed which is still the weak link and thats the low roller and the lugs on the planet that the low roller inner race locks into to hold the planet in first gear. with that much torque and weight it is going to tear those lugs right off the planet...

Camaroz

iTrader: (2)

Waste of money. Go 4BT or built 4l80E. There's no if's or but's

JOHNBOY66

Don't waste your time with a 4L60/65.
A stock Dmax will kill it

Go straight to the 4l80/85.

I have experience with this. Not something I read in a magazine.

We have been 9.2@149 with a Dmax and a 4L80.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

those questions would probably be better answered on a diesel forum, your not likely to get much good info here, just like asking on a diesel forum about how high rpms affect the trans.

05HD

What is the difference between 500 ft/lbs @ 1800 and 500 ft/lbs at 4500?

Simple, pump speed. There is a reason 4L60 pumps don't mind RPM and 4L80 ones do.

71novaguy

iTrader: (2)

Hey, you. Moron. Apparently you can read, but I guess you have a hard time understanding. Multiple people have told you the difference, you just refuse to believe it.

You say you have no other options, which does not make any sense. You can stupidly put a trans behind it that is going to fail, or you do it right and put the proper trans behind it. then modify what you need to make it work. There is only one good option there.

lt1pwr1

iTrader: (1)

And maybe you should read your OWN posts. In your second post you clearly state a Dmax.

Goatman1970

iTrader: (1)

Direct quote from Frank at Performabuilt with my self imposed limit of no more than 550 ftlbs...


"I see no reason why not it should be fine,

Frank"


Thanks everyone for the help.... good thing you guys weren't on the moon landing project! We'd still be earth bound!

buddyholly

Actually following thought process, if we were on the moon landing and decided to choose the better, safer and more reliable of two options, we would be on the moon just fine. You, however, would most probably be dead...
Good luck, hurry up with pictures. I briefly considered a diesel for my Chevelle but the weight was always a killer for me.

71novaguy

iTrader: (2)

is he offering a warranty on it?

agreed.

JOHNBOY66

If putting a Dmax in a a car and hauling butt is a trip to the moon then I must work at Mission control!
"Houston we have lift off with a 4L80"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bZu1s6D6Pw

That trans is basically just a stock 4L80e with a manual valvebody. I doubt you can build a 4L60 for less cash that will hold like the 4L80.

But what do I know my heads in the stars?

Camaroz

iTrader: (2)

Think maybe he will get it now? I'm thinking no.