lemons12

iTrader: (71)

It is simple really..

Take these two setups (actual previous setups that I have ran many times).. It has been a few years so go easy on EXACT mods and exact times but this is pretty damn close.

98 TA
ms4 cam
ls1 intake
pacesetters x pipe 1 chambers before the axle
lid
4400 vig converter
323

00 z28
f13 cam
PRC 5.3 2.5 heads
ls6 intake
lid
mac mids y pipe
373s
underdrive pulley
tune

Race weights were within 30# of each other..

dyno numbers-
With 3Rwhp of each and 11Rwtq (same dyno same day back to back)

1/8 track (and these were same day/multiple passes to back it up)
TA- 7.5X@92mph low 1.6 short times
Z28- 7.7X@89mph low 1.7 short times

40 roll (55 roll was VERY similar but after the initial hit he wouldn't continue the pull)
The Z28 would jump out almost immediately 3/4-1 car length and continue pulling till around 100 with about 1 1/2 lengths.. I would stop his pull but we wouldn't let out till around 130mph, I was SLOWLY SLOWLY SLOWLY creeping back up but it would have took me until 160+ to actually pass him I believe.

These races have been done after EVERY mod we did and probably 10 or more times..

Why?
I had a converter that help me get out of the hole better than him... I had a car built (or lack there of at this time ) to pull hard up top.
He had a setup that had an INSANE mid range pull... I would jump him 1-1 1/4 cars in the 60', by the 330 he was back almost even with me and I would end the race putting another couple feet on him.

From a 40 roll he would jump out and having such a strong mid range (30-80mph) I wouldn't have time to run him down within normal street racing mph's.

I could give you ten more instances where this happens... One car making more Rwhp/one making less/ trapping more and less/ more or less mods/ etc etc etc.. There is way more to roll racing than just damn trap speeds.
I don't think I need to go THAT much into detail though, you should grasp what I'm getting at from that...

I would no doubt listen to the experts, I can only give my personal experience and what little research (compared to them) I have done on my own for my own goals.
I do know PTC makes an amazing converter!!

I know you know your ****... Old schooler or not, we all learn something from someone. I read one of your kill stories, AWESOME!!!





***Sorry guys, I was rushing, the GF wants to watch a movie!

z99ls1

iTrader: (12)

ha I know how that goes

thedudeZ

iTrader: (14)

lemons, the red z28 wants a rematch with the new ptc 3000 converter

thomas needs to remove that rip in his sig cuz it aint restin!

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Deal!!! Haha he is retarded anyway. I think it runs a LITTLE bit harder now!

Mine is rip for now! I got the ball rolling though. Looking like an l92/ls3 heads/etc..

thedudeZ

iTrader: (14)

same motor.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Fixed
Hahaha

senicalj4579

iTrader: (41)

This looks like a damn facebook page

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

theres a lot of bad information in this thread... If you have the properly setup up powerband to converter ratio, your car will pick up mph. Usually people either dont pick up mph or drop mph because they over stall there cars. They get obsessed with cutting a thousandth of a second off there 60 foot to sacrifice top end at the end of the track. Sometimes this gets you a better et which is all a lot of drag racers car about. Me on the other hand, prefer a much more well rounded car. Id rather leave just a bit on the table on the launch to keep my top end down the track... In my area, im known for having one of the fastest cars from 125-155mph.. and i have a stalled auto. However my converter is not optimal... its actually too tight.. The goal with the new spec converter is for my car to keep the same top end, but gain everywhere else. However if i over-converter the setup... i will lose top end. My recommendation is to call a company like circle-d or ATI and have them set u up with a converter for YOUR setup... not for someones guess at an internet setup. Not to mention a big part of it is getting a big dollar race converter for efficiency.. lose for the shift extension, efficient for that third gear top end pull without locking up.

Worst case scenario too with buying a multi-disk lock up clutch, lets say ur converter is slightly too loose for ur setup, u can always lock it up.. boom stick car!

senicalj4579

iTrader: (41)

See this what im talking about. I want a good converter that will keep my top end or very close to it. What do you have?

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

The converter is going to be very relavant to where your car makes power.. Im gonna be running a circle d 4c 245mm converter. The key is finding the converter that will get the car moving really well, keep the car in its powerband on the shift extension, and be efficient. For me its the 4C. My car also revs 7100 (potentially 7300 when done). With the 4c converter, if i shift my car at 7k, my shift extension will drop back to around 5800-5900 rpm and by 6800 rpm or so will be almost 100 percent efficient (aka no slip). Which will be perfect... ill have that ballistic top end while not suffering from falling out of the power band on the shift and having a very unimpressive launch at the track. Also to when looking for converters for your car, pay attention to what the STR of the converter is. 9 times out of 10... the higher the STR, the less efficient the converter is. However the higher the str, the more tq multiplication and the stronger the launch is and the converter tends to feel slightly looser but is extremely snappy. The lower the str the more efficient converters tend to be on the top end however they lose a lot of that strength down low for the launch. This is really only the case with lower grade converters... if you spend the money on the big gun converters (ati, circle d, fti, etc) you will get that strong str, with a very efficient converter top end... again efficiency is going to matter too with what rpm your spinning. I wouldnt buy a converter for your setup until u know what your final setup is going to be and you have a good understanding of how the converter actually works. Talk to some of the companies, read some good articles. Lots of information out there. But the whole idea of losing mph and top end is really just improper converter/motor combo.

Put it this way.. A local friend of mine in his bolt on z28 with 3.73 gears was trapping a consistant 108 which is really not all that impressionable (longtubes, cut out, ls6 intake, gear, slicks, skinnies, etc) He picked up a yank ss3600 (seem big but also work really well on stock motor cars) and he dropped .6 of his et and gained 4 mph. Again 4 mph while still dropping .6. He didnt lock the converter up either (wouldnt recommend it considering it has a single disk lock up clutch).

What are you going to be doing to your motor?.... HP, TQ, RPM, Power curve all have a huge effect on how your converter works.

got-a-ls1

iTrader: (12)

when i installed my 4c converter i went from running 8.4's @ 87mph 7.7's @ 88 mph.. Weird thing is the converter feels slower on the top end i think because the rpms dont rise with the speed like a stock stall does.. But it picked up speed so its obviously not slower... Shift extension shifting at 6500 rpm is 5100 rpm. About 440 rpm slip @6300+ rpm.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

As I said, my car moves out quicker spinning that it did stock stall dead hooking



My car is daily driven. I do have 92 truck, but I'd rather drive my car. The car still gets better fuel mileage than the 92 chevy shortwide with a v6, both in town and on the highway.

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

I wouldnt have run a 4000+ converter unless im turning 7000 rpm. If your reving to 6500, its probably not the most efficient converter for ur setup on the top end. The converter will tighten up as u rev it. If you ask me, a 3600 may be slightly more optimal. But your ets will always be good. Im also the guy that pulls the stick cars on the top end with my auto lol

senicalj4579

iTrader: (41)

Sweet! What spec converter would you recomend for me? Im almost stock. Few mods in my sig for 01 ss

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I personally would want a tenth quicker sixty foot and knock off two tenths on the et instead of trapping 95 over 94.

If you want your car to pull hard on the top end, buy a manual.
With any good converter you are going to stay the same or more than likely pick up mph. You dont have to turn 7000 rpms to run a 4000 converter. And you aren't going to pick up 3mph by going from a 4000 to a 3200.
You have contradicted yourself on your own posts.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Objection your honor! Argumentative. I move to strike this comment from the record.

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

How did i contradict myself? If your converter is far too loose for your setup, u will pick up mph by tightening it up.. u may drop some ET, but to a lot of people.. 1/4 mile times arent most important, a lot of highway racing is. And at the same time, if your converter is far too tight for your setup (my case) you will pick up mph and also in my case, ET. But again, to some people, ET is not most important, roll racing is. If your going ***** out ET, the bigger the better. But for roll racing, i like to keep the flash speed of the converter roughly 3000 rpm below the shifting RPM. Anything looser then that will slow u down up top. And i can agree that if u want the mph, get a stick car... but people arent gonna sell there cars to get a 6 spd or do a trans swap. If they get the right converter, they will be happy in both aspects of racing.

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

That all depends on if your going to be staying stock. Ive always liked 3200s with the stock motor. Always seems to be an awesome performer. If u want ***** out ET though... go bigger. If you wanna hang with or beat the stick cars on the roll (even up top) Like i said in the previous post, i like to keep my flash speed 3000 rpm back from the shift point. It works fantastic on the rolls. I do a lot of roll racing. Most cars are higher hp stick cars, yet on the top end, they either get pulled.... or just hang back and cant catch me.

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

put it this way... i do a lot of roll racing with my setup, but i still want to run 10.50 class at the track. So my setup should run roughly in the 10.5 area but trap around 130-132. My friends Camaro however, traps 132 but ETs at a 10.1 and is upping the converter from a 4800 to a 5800. So you can expect his ET to stay the same, maybe even drop a mph, but possibly crack 9s. His car is also a very efficient ETing car however it sits on the converter the whole way down the track which is costing him his top end. Had he been a stick car, he would be trapping in the 135-136 area. He currently clicks out 1.45 60s.. Wants to hit a 1.3x though.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I am on my phone so not going back through all of it.. Read through it and you will catch them yourself.

Simply put, don't build an A4 for roll racing, there is zero reason for it. Two equally modded cars, the M6 always wins from a roll. No matter how efficient a converter is, A4s have more drivetrain loss which means less power.
You want to roll race, buy a manual.
Can you be happy with both aspects? Sure... But don't sit here and say, "I pull manuals up top all day long" because I do too... Why? Because the majority of the time, they have less mods than I do. Equal mods, they pull me. You can't get away from that.

3200 is good for 1.7 short times... That is leaving a LOT on the table. Sure you can argue going from a 3200 to a 4000 is going to cause you to trap 91 instead of 92 mph.. But going from a 3200 to a 4000 is also going to cause you to run 7.4 instead of 7.7s.
You have to give to gain. Just like with a cam, you can't have a top end screamer like an Ms4 with gobs of torque low in the RPM range.

You can't have the best of both worlds, it just doesn't happen like that, period.