new stall with dr's but car feels slower.whats up?
01-22-2011, 11:33 AM
#1
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new stall with dr's but car feels slower.whats up? got a budget stall convertor from revmax.3200 stall 9.5 inch. also got some bfg drag radials.i bought my car with a huge cam in it and a stock convertor.from a dig the car was a dog because of the stock TC,but from a roll,it was an absolute beast.well,i bought a budget convertor and now,from a dig it wraps up the rpms very fast,but at a roll,it seems like the car is accelarating slower than with the stock tc.im not sure if im spinning or what because the drag radials make no noise at all.and i cant hear anything over my borla.so can someone please answer the following questions:
KEEP IN MIND I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH ANY OTHER STALL CONVERTOR OTHER THAN MINE.never driven another one or rideen in someones car that has a yank or pi.
how can i tell if my convertor is efficient?
how can i tell if its too tight?(creeps foward with foot off the brake at idle)
how can i tell if too loose?
why cant i feel it lock up in OD?( my old one locked up hard like a 5th gear almost)
how can i tell if its slipping?
is the slight vibration i feel in second gear due to it being out of balance?
ive been debating with some guys on ls1.com about this convertor and they almost have me convinced i have a POS.i was defending my convertor,but started to really think about it and my car felt faster with the stock one(from a roll)
and my car shifted very crisp with the stock TC in.with the revmax,it seems to shift softer.i know a stall will make the shifts feel softer,but is there anyway to get a crisp snappy shift with a good quality stall?or do i just have a pos TC which is causing all this?
also i thought bfg dr's were supposed to be sticky.do i need to burn em first?cause it seems like i spin alot more than i used to.just driving around town.
KEEP IN MIND I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH ANY OTHER STALL CONVERTOR OTHER THAN MINE.never driven another one or rideen in someones car that has a yank or pi.
how can i tell if my convertor is efficient?
how can i tell if its too tight?(creeps foward with foot off the brake at idle)
how can i tell if too loose?
why cant i feel it lock up in OD?( my old one locked up hard like a 5th gear almost)
how can i tell if its slipping?
is the slight vibration i feel in second gear due to it being out of balance?
ive been debating with some guys on ls1.com about this convertor and they almost have me convinced i have a POS.i was defending my convertor,but started to really think about it and my car felt faster with the stock one(from a roll)
and my car shifted very crisp with the stock TC in.with the revmax,it seems to shift softer.i know a stall will make the shifts feel softer,but is there anyway to get a crisp snappy shift with a good quality stall?or do i just have a pos TC which is causing all this?
also i thought bfg dr's were supposed to be sticky.do i need to burn em first?cause it seems like i spin alot more than i used to.just driving around town.
01-22-2011, 11:53 AM
#2
Tightness and looseness are subjective. If it's not too much one way or the other for you, then it's fine. As for efficiency, do a search on that topic and/or for posts by jimmyblue in this forum. He describes a method for calculating it out.
The best way to firm up shifts and lock-up is by installing a Transgo HD2 shift kit and doing some trans tuning. You can do a lot just by tuning, but the kit gives mechanical advantages not possible with just tuning.
Whether your converter is POS or not mostly depends on the clutch material used, whether it has a billet converter, and manufacturing quality. A budget converter is not likely to have a billet front cover, and thus probably has stock clutch material. This means using the shift kit to eliminate PWM and have 100% clutch apply is important.
Does the converter stall up/flash to where it is supposed to? Given some leeway for the power you're making, this is the best indicator if it is doing what it is supposed to do.
Yes, go somewhere and do a major smokeshow with those tires. They need to be conditioned to get sticky.
The best way to firm up shifts and lock-up is by installing a Transgo HD2 shift kit and doing some trans tuning. You can do a lot just by tuning, but the kit gives mechanical advantages not possible with just tuning.
Whether your converter is POS or not mostly depends on the clutch material used, whether it has a billet converter, and manufacturing quality. A budget converter is not likely to have a billet front cover, and thus probably has stock clutch material. This means using the shift kit to eliminate PWM and have 100% clutch apply is important.
Does the converter stall up/flash to where it is supposed to? Given some leeway for the power you're making, this is the best indicator if it is doing what it is supposed to do.
Yes, go somewhere and do a major smokeshow with those tires. They need to be conditioned to get sticky.
01-22-2011, 12:14 PM
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The words budget and after market torque converter don't go together very good. You get what you pay for, that simple.
Anyway, some of the questions you asked are the nature of the beast when installing a larger than stock torque converter.
how can i tell if my convertor is efficient?
- A scan tool can monitor TC slip or you can use an online calculator by inputting 1/4 mile data.
how can i tell if its too tight?(creeps foward with foot off the brake at idle)
- An aftermarket TC should be noticeably looser (even a 3200) than stock. I ran a Yank 3200 years ago and it had no creep off idle.
how can i tell if too loose?
- Reverse as above. Looseness is subjective, but the more throttle (higher than stock rpm) it takes to get from idle to speed is what most use to gauge for looseness.
why cant i feel it lock up in OD?( my old one locked up hard like a 5th gear almost)
- Not unusual, but better quality converters will use higher quality clutch material for a more positive TC engagement.
how can i tell if its slipping?
- It will slip more than stock, once again a scan tool tool can help.
is the slight vibration i feel in second gear due to it being out of balance?
- Not good at all, especially in second gear. It could be several things, so it's hard to diagnose this.
I know a stall will make the shifts feel softer,but is there anyway to get a crisp snappy shift with a good quality stall?or do i just have a pos TC which is causing all this?
- Yes, this can be addresses to a degree with tuning specifically the shift times to increase firmness.
- I've never heard of Revmax, so I can't say. Do a search on this forum and you will find two converter brands are head up the rest-Yank and Circle D-for a reason when it comes to LS applications.
also i thought bfg dr's were supposed to be sticky.do i need to burn em first?cause it seems like i spin alot more than i used to.
- If you're referring to launching with a TC and DR's; yes you need to burn out first to heat the tires for better traction at launch. I would look at a different DR. Nitto's or preferably the MT DR which is much better but wears quicker.
but at a roll,it seems like the car is accelarating slower than with the stock tc.im not sure if im spinning or what because the drag radials make no noise at all.
- This is where a higher stall shines; from a roll. It should kick down much harder and flash higher than stock.
Some of the comments you mention can be addressed with tuning to tweak the shift points and firmness and TC lock/unlock as well, but a aftermarket TC will never feel completely like stock. Hope this helps.
Anyway, some of the questions you asked are the nature of the beast when installing a larger than stock torque converter.
how can i tell if my convertor is efficient?
- A scan tool can monitor TC slip or you can use an online calculator by inputting 1/4 mile data.
how can i tell if its too tight?(creeps foward with foot off the brake at idle)
- An aftermarket TC should be noticeably looser (even a 3200) than stock. I ran a Yank 3200 years ago and it had no creep off idle.
how can i tell if too loose?
- Reverse as above. Looseness is subjective, but the more throttle (higher than stock rpm) it takes to get from idle to speed is what most use to gauge for looseness.
why cant i feel it lock up in OD?( my old one locked up hard like a 5th gear almost)
- Not unusual, but better quality converters will use higher quality clutch material for a more positive TC engagement.
how can i tell if its slipping?
- It will slip more than stock, once again a scan tool tool can help.
is the slight vibration i feel in second gear due to it being out of balance?
- Not good at all, especially in second gear. It could be several things, so it's hard to diagnose this.
I know a stall will make the shifts feel softer,but is there anyway to get a crisp snappy shift with a good quality stall?or do i just have a pos TC which is causing all this?
- Yes, this can be addresses to a degree with tuning specifically the shift times to increase firmness.
- I've never heard of Revmax, so I can't say. Do a search on this forum and you will find two converter brands are head up the rest-Yank and Circle D-for a reason when it comes to LS applications.
also i thought bfg dr's were supposed to be sticky.do i need to burn em first?cause it seems like i spin alot more than i used to.
- If you're referring to launching with a TC and DR's; yes you need to burn out first to heat the tires for better traction at launch. I would look at a different DR. Nitto's or preferably the MT DR which is much better but wears quicker.
but at a roll,it seems like the car is accelarating slower than with the stock tc.im not sure if im spinning or what because the drag radials make no noise at all.
- This is where a higher stall shines; from a roll. It should kick down much harder and flash higher than stock.
Some of the comments you mention can be addressed with tuning to tweak the shift points and firmness and TC lock/unlock as well, but a aftermarket TC will never feel completely like stock. Hope this helps.
01-22-2011, 12:48 PM
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"it should flash higher than stock"
im not sure what flash is.
and what is PWM?when talking about tc slippage and clutch apply?
i know the company revmax had me upgrade to a carbon fiber woven clutch,which i thought would make the lock up feel hard,but i cant feel it all.is there a chance its not locking up?yeah theres this guy on ls1.com thats got over 10,000 posts.he did some search on revmax as did i.i did my research on them before i bought mine and coulndt find antything.this other guy did some public domain name searches or something and he tells me revmax is fly by night.the owner has filed bankrupcy numerous times,opens shop under another name then closes.i coulnt find that.so i started thinking about my cheap convertor,and it does not have a billett back.then i started questioning the quality because it was only $350.im gonna mointor a scan tool and talk with ace racing trans here in DFW and im pretty sure they're gonna tell me the same thing.POS.one way to be sure i have a good convertor is to buy a yank which im gonna eventually do,but i was just wondering if there was a way to "measure" the efficiancy or slippage.thanks though for answering all those questions.
im not sure what flash is.
and what is PWM?when talking about tc slippage and clutch apply?
i know the company revmax had me upgrade to a carbon fiber woven clutch,which i thought would make the lock up feel hard,but i cant feel it all.is there a chance its not locking up?yeah theres this guy on ls1.com thats got over 10,000 posts.he did some search on revmax as did i.i did my research on them before i bought mine and coulndt find antything.this other guy did some public domain name searches or something and he tells me revmax is fly by night.the owner has filed bankrupcy numerous times,opens shop under another name then closes.i coulnt find that.so i started thinking about my cheap convertor,and it does not have a billett back.then i started questioning the quality because it was only $350.im gonna mointor a scan tool and talk with ace racing trans here in DFW and im pretty sure they're gonna tell me the same thing.POS.one way to be sure i have a good convertor is to buy a yank which im gonna eventually do,but i was just wondering if there was a way to "measure" the efficiancy or slippage.thanks though for answering all those questions.
01-22-2011, 01:09 PM
#5
Pull it and sell it.. converter will make or break an entire setup, period. It is NOT a part you want to go cheap on.
You can get a brand new ptc shipped to your door for 500 bucks.. if you are on a budget, stay away from yank, they are expensive. They make an amazing converter so if you have the money go for it if you want. But imo ptc makes a better converter.
I'm on my phone or would help u more in detail.. you did get a trans cooler, right? I didn't read everything cause im on phone.
You can get a brand new ptc shipped to your door for 500 bucks.. if you are on a budget, stay away from yank, they are expensive. They make an amazing converter so if you have the money go for it if you want. But imo ptc makes a better converter.
I'm on my phone or would help u more in detail.. you did get a trans cooler, right? I didn't read everything cause im on phone.
01-22-2011, 01:15 PM
#6
Flash is the rpm that the converter will run up to when you stomp it from a dig - assuming you hook. Yes, pulse width modulation is the factory system for clutch apply. As the name implies, it's a modulated apply which is hard on the small clutch areas of aftermarket TC's. Eliminating PWM results in an immediate 100% apply, which like you say, feels like shifting into another gear.
01-22-2011, 05:02 PM
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Revmax 
Not sweating you OP, I know we have some real salesmen around here that make them sound like they are made of gold, when they obviously are not.
Not sweating you OP, I know we have some real salesmen around here that make them sound like they are made of gold, when they obviously are not. Trending Topics
01-22-2011, 06:32 PM
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just go to their site revmaxconverters.com
ive tried to do some searches on them because i wanted to get some feedback before i bought one,but i couldnt find very much info on them.they are more popular with the diesel cars.im just tired of the "wondering if its as good as a yank or pi"so im just gonna buy a yank.yes they are expensive,but $725 with free shipping isnt too bad.3year warrenty with a free restall rocks too.so im gonna bit the bullett and get one.
ive tried to do some searches on them because i wanted to get some feedback before i bought one,but i couldnt find very much info on them.they are more popular with the diesel cars.im just tired of the "wondering if its as good as a yank or pi"so im just gonna buy a yank.yes they are expensive,but $725 with free shipping isnt too bad.3year warrenty with a free restall rocks too.so im gonna bit the bullett and get one.
01-22-2011, 07:34 PM
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I highly recommend PTC. I have used then in my race car and they are the best converter I've had on it. I've tried all of the big names and theirs works the best and they are extremely efficient not to mention their customer service is some of the best I've encountered.
01-22-2011, 07:57 PM
#13
I'm going to be the devil's advocate here and say that just because you don't have the most awesome converter in the world doesn't mean you should pull it and get another. I daily drove a TCI 3000 for three years and 24,000 miles with dozens upon dozens of passes at the track with no problems. I moved up to a Yank SS3600 and saw no improvement in times.
Plus you haven't optimized your current setup with proper tuning. I'd get it optimized before buying another converter.
Before and after track times would tell the story - too bad you don't have those.
Plus you haven't optimized your current setup with proper tuning. I'd get it optimized before buying another converter.
Before and after track times would tell the story - too bad you don't have those.
01-22-2011, 08:04 PM
#14
This is sad.. They are one of the best companies out there and they get little to no recognition on this board. It is either Yank/CircleD in pretty much every thread. IMO PTC blows circle D out of the water and has a solid edge on Yank.
Go ask about PTC over on yellowbullet, those are hardcore racers, as in the majority run 5s.
http://www.ptcrace.com/
I highly recommend PTC. I have used then in my race car and they are the best converter I've had on it. I've tried all of the big names and theirs works the best and they are extremely efficient not to mention their customer service is some of the best I've encountered.
01-22-2011, 09:09 PM
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I'm going to be the devil's advocate here and say that just because you don't have the most awesome converter in the world doesn't mean you should pull it and get another. I daily drove a TCI 3000 for three years and 24,000 miles with dozens upon dozens of passes at the track with no problems. I moved up to a Yank SS3600 and saw no improvement in times.
Plus you haven't optimized your current setup with proper tuning. I'd get it optimized before buying another converter.
Before and after track times would tell the story - too bad you don't have those.
Plus you haven't optimized your current setup with proper tuning. I'd get it optimized before buying another converter.
Before and after track times would tell the story - too bad you don't have those.
01-22-2011, 10:44 PM
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O Jesus, you missed the two huge pissing match threads about revmax. It was quite entertaining 
This is sad.. They are one of the best companies out there and they get little to no recognition on this board. It is either Yank/CircleD in pretty much every thread. IMO PTC blows circle D out of the water and has a solid edge on Yank.
Go ask about PTC over on yellowbullet, those are hardcore racers, as in the majority run 5s.
http://www.ptcrace.com/
Lets compare apples to apples. I understand you are arguing for PTC at a $500 price. However, Yank has a converter or less then this ($400 range I believe). The ONLY reason for Yank and Circle Ds $700 price is the billet front. That cost money to make and thats where the price difference is. They are buying something for their extra $200. Lets not pretend these are honest to goodness identical converters with $200 price difference. Is the billet front needed on a street car? Thats up for interpretation. I personally have owned both and I will be staying with a billet converter bc its my preference.
This is sad.. They are one of the best companies out there and they get little to no recognition on this board. It is either Yank/CircleD in pretty much every thread. IMO PTC blows circle D out of the water and has a solid edge on Yank.
Go ask about PTC over on yellowbullet, those are hardcore racers, as in the majority run 5s.
http://www.ptcrace.com/