stand alone controller for a 6L80E
03-06-2011, 12:53 AM
#4
Not gonna happen. The TCM is a highly complex piece of computer hardware that is programmed to run on a GM specific CAN bus network. It determines operation decisions based on a this complex, but high speed and highly efficient network. The only way to run it is with a GM ECM E38 or E67....or for the aftermarket to develop a CAN Bus language of its own to emulate the GM system.
03-07-2011, 11:27 AM
#5
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So for FAST systems, Holley Dominator systems, Big stuff 3 systems ... etc ... all those have coil on plug technology with all the proper sensors for communication .... none of them will be able to communicate with the 6l80e .. even if just for use in manual mode ?
03-08-2011, 11:18 AM
#6
Those are all pretty much the same systems. They are designed to mechanical transmissions. Even if they can run the electronic 4 speeds it requires completely different programming to communicate with the 6 sp. Plus, bc of the viral nature of misinformation regarding the 6L80/90 most of the aftermarket considers it a niche market
03-08-2011, 02:13 PM
#7
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I can't believe the discrete Data could not be duplicated on the Bus. But I guess is as there is no standalone system as of yet.
I had the idea of checking to see it the 2010-up Vans with the 6l90 used with D-max LMM has a standalone type system with it since its a diesel. Surely it does?
Thoughts??
I had the idea of checking to see it the 2010-up Vans with the 6l90 used with D-max LMM has a standalone type system with it since its a diesel. Surely it does?
Thoughts??
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03-08-2011, 08:42 PM
#8
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I was talking to a transmission guy who told me when the trannys come in for service, they have a programmer they put it on that will test the transmissons. You can plug in some kinda adaptor and go through the gears manually one by one to make sure the transmission is ready to leave the shop. If something like that exists without haveing to have the engine hooked up, then there is a starting point right there for something to use it with paddle shifters manually. But I do totally understand that its solenoid controlled and timing would have to be exact on those things.
07-19-2011, 10:24 AM
#12
Again...not gonna happen. The TCM is a highly complex piece of computer hardware that is programmed to run on a GM specific CAN bus network. It determines operation decisions based on a this complex, but high speed and highly efficient network. The only way to run it is with a GM ECM E38 or E67....or for the aftermarket to develop a CAN Bus language of its own to emulate the GM system.
03-29-2012, 10:18 AM
#14
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I work at a salvage yard and we have done several G8's and L99 Camaro SS's we get calls asking for a stand alone 6l80 system all the time for people who want to retro fit those transmissions. Has any one heard new info on this?
03-29-2012, 08:41 PM
#15
Sadly I think this is a pipe dream until someone here get a wild hair up their *** and R&Ds it themselves, then sells to the community. Back in my 3000GT VR4 days, that's how it was done for 99% of our Go Fast parts, since there was **** for aftermarket for us.
This is a BIG money maker if someone could get it off the ground, but I doubt that will be any time soon
This is a BIG money maker if someone could get it off the ground, but I doubt that will be any time soon
08-13-2012, 10:38 PM
#18
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Again...not gonna happen. The TCM is a highly complex piece of computer hardware that is programmed to run on a GM specific CAN bus network. It determines operation decisions based on a this complex, but high speed and highly efficient network. The only way to run it is with a GM ECM E38 or E67....or for the aftermarket to develop a CAN Bus language of its own to emulate the GM system.
the control of the trans is actually pretty simple as well...
but making something that properly controls the trans is the issue...
the real issue is that the 6L80 just isnt made for any serious power
and you need all the "torque management" to keep the thing from breaking
programming the torque management requires some feedback from the engine pcm itself and also some response back to the engine PCM
that is the part that makes it tough to do...
there are plenty of controllers that could change the gears and do the pressures correctly....
but that transmission breaks easy without any fine tuning control... which is all done via canbus and the TCM in the sump area of the transmission itself
all you would have to do is supply a kit to bypass the internal tcm and suddenly you have a standard valve body transmission...simple solenoid control is all it would be at that point..
(and I know theres more to it than what I just said.... it would be quite an expensive task to make a custom bypass harness just to use a separate trans controller)
Last edited by s2h Lsx; 08-13-2012 at 10:44 PM.
08-14-2012, 02:27 PM
#19
TECH Senior Member
The 6L80/90 are referred to a clutch-to-clutch meaning that two clutches have to be applied/released simultaneously by two different hydraulic circuits (unlike the traditional controls where a single hydraulic circuit released the off-going component and applied the on-going component);
the release of the off-going component and the apply of the on-going component have to be synchronized and timed to prevent binding... sure it's simple to apply/release a pair of solenoids, but it's difficult to synchronize them in a manner to allow just enough slip to avoid binding but not enough slip to cause wear/heating... the synch'ing requires to take into account engine torque, the inertia of the rotating components, and various other factors;
simply applying and releasing solenoid pairs would either resulting binding (breaks hard parts) or slipping (burns soft parts).
the release of the off-going component and the apply of the on-going component have to be synchronized and timed to prevent binding... sure it's simple to apply/release a pair of solenoids, but it's difficult to synchronize them in a manner to allow just enough slip to avoid binding but not enough slip to cause wear/heating... the synch'ing requires to take into account engine torque, the inertia of the rotating components, and various other factors;
simply applying and releasing solenoid pairs would either resulting binding (breaks hard parts) or slipping (burns soft parts).
08-14-2012, 06:14 PM
#20
The 6L80/90 are referred to a clutch-to-clutch meaning that two clutches have to be applied/released simultaneously by two different hydraulic circuits (unlike the traditional controls where a single hydraulic circuit released the off-going component and applied the on-going component);
the release of the off-going component and the apply of the on-going component have to be synchronized and timed to prevent binding... sure it's simple to apply/release a pair of solenoids, but it's difficult to synchronize them in a manner to allow just enough slip to avoid binding but not enough slip to cause wear/heating... the synch'ing requires to take into account engine torque, the inertia of the rotating components, and various other factors;
simply applying and releasing solenoid pairs would either resulting binding (breaks hard parts) or slipping (burns soft parts).
the release of the off-going component and the apply of the on-going component have to be synchronized and timed to prevent binding... sure it's simple to apply/release a pair of solenoids, but it's difficult to synchronize them in a manner to allow just enough slip to avoid binding but not enough slip to cause wear/heating... the synch'ing requires to take into account engine torque, the inertia of the rotating components, and various other factors;
simply applying and releasing solenoid pairs would either resulting binding (breaks hard parts) or slipping (burns soft parts).
that is exactly why it is also not a transmission built for any kind of real power...
if you want 6 gears... Go with a TCI 6x
No issues here, warranty to 850 RWHP straight out of the box
Handles that plus some already, upgrade to a billet input shaft and billet clutch hub and its good to around 1250 RWHP pretty easily.
I'm beating on mine pretty hard and havent had any issues yet.
and it drives great on the street, give you a 0.75 overdrive, and has been proven to be faster than 6l80 at the track.
not to mention, that 6l80 has such a steep first gear, and such a poor split between gears, it really is not a good track transmission