4L65E - Will it hold 500HP at the track?
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
4L65E - Will it hold 500HP at the track? (I posted this on another thread and it was suggested I start a new thread.)
I have an LS2 with about 500 fly wheel hp swapped into a '81 Camaro. I have a new 2009 4L65E and a few questions:
Q1 - Will this late model 4L65E hold up with drag radials?
Q2 - Is the 4L65E significantly stronger than a 4L60E?
Q3 - Should I enable or disable torque management, or perhaps just reduce the amount of retard for torque management. (I have HP Tuners)
I normally drive with street tires, but prefer drag radials at the track. My rearend, traction bars, drive shaft, etc should be good for 700hp. Just worrying about the trans.
Thank you!
1st track day in Michigan is next week.
I have an LS2 with about 500 fly wheel hp swapped into a '81 Camaro. I have a new 2009 4L65E and a few questions:
Q1 - Will this late model 4L65E hold up with drag radials?
Q2 - Is the 4L65E significantly stronger than a 4L60E?
Q3 - Should I enable or disable torque management, or perhaps just reduce the amount of retard for torque management. (I have HP Tuners)
I normally drive with street tires, but prefer drag radials at the track. My rearend, traction bars, drive shaft, etc should be good for 700hp. Just worrying about the trans.
Thank you!
1st track day in Michigan is next week.
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
I don't know my line pressure per se, but I have installed the Transgo Shift kit including the supplied HD boost valve and have tuned the trans for about 30% faster shifts and 30% higher line pressure.
I'm not so worried about burning the clutches as I am about breaking critical parts like the input shaft and sun-shell. The 4l65E has a 5-gear planetary set and a stronger sun-shell, but it is enough?
Any advice on the enable/disable/reduce torque management will be most appreciated. Thanks.
I'm not so worried about burning the clutches as I am about breaking critical parts like the input shaft and sun-shell. The 4l65E has a 5-gear planetary set and a stronger sun-shell, but it is enough?
Any advice on the enable/disable/reduce torque management will be most appreciated. Thanks.
id say it will live a good while, i pushed a stock 100k mile 4l60E with over 530RWHP(175 shot) cutting mid 1.4 60s probley 5 or 6 times and it never broke. Sold the car and the owner kept the same shot on it and it lived a little while longer before it finally went out.
So with a 4l65E i would say it will be pretty durable as long as you dont get too crazy. Also Torque management will Def. help your Trans live longer but at a sacrifice of performance, so thats your call.
So with a 4l65E i would say it will be pretty durable as long as you dont get too crazy. Also Torque management will Def. help your Trans live longer but at a sacrifice of performance, so thats your call.
The 4L65e has the same downfalls that the 4L60e have. They aren't significantly stronger than the 4L60e. It should handle 500hp for a while but you will eventually have to upgrade it with a built unit. One of our Level 5 4L65e transmissions would do what you need it to do. A Level 6 would give you room to grow. Your 09 transmission could be a 4L70e depending on what it came out of. If it is it has the capability of monitoring input speed. It would be really cool to monitor if your computer has the capability.
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Thanks for the replies and info!
OK, I'll first enable a "little" torque management, cutting advance by about 15-20 degrees, certainly not the 35+ degrees in a stock tune.
The trans came as a "bundle" that a boat manufacturer bought who only wanted the LSx engines; he was therefore selling the transmissions at a great price. I may buy another for a spare. The seller verified the numbers with a GM dealer who said they were 4L65E. My surprise was that 2009 is quite different electronically than any pre-2009 unit. I had to put an older valve body on it to make it work with my computer. Yes it had an input speed sensor, but I broke if off getting to the regulator/boost valve.
OK, I'll first enable a "little" torque management, cutting advance by about 15-20 degrees, certainly not the 35+ degrees in a stock tune.
The trans came as a "bundle" that a boat manufacturer bought who only wanted the LSx engines; he was therefore selling the transmissions at a great price. I may buy another for a spare. The seller verified the numbers with a GM dealer who said they were 4L65E. My surprise was that 2009 is quite different electronically than any pre-2009 unit. I had to put an older valve body on it to make it work with my computer. Yes it had an input speed sensor, but I broke if off getting to the regulator/boost valve.
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Just a thought... 200-4r. Takes away all those electronics and has held into the 9's in GN's. Considering you have the 4l65E already, not so much... Idonno why more people don't opt for that old LIGHTWEIGHT and strong(when built) GM model when building an older car with an LS or other late model. Is it because of the electronics? I mean, it seems that can be the only drawback.
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I'm making about 420 at the wheels in my GTO which translates close to 500hp at the flywheel. I have many passes at the track and it's a daily driver ... 3200 Vig but otherwise stock transmission. 16k miles when I made the mods 83k miles now and still works like a champ.
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Certainly a good and valid suggestion for many swaps. I'll mention it on the Nastyz28 forum where I often answer "swapping" questions. Its just not for me - I tune my trans constantly for my daily driving and experimentation.
Am I correct that GTO have 4L65e? I assume you are running sticky tires at the track?
Thanks again for the replies.
I'm making about 420 at the wheels in my GTO which translates close to 500hp at the flywheel. I have many passes at the track and it's a daily driver ... 3200 Vig but otherwise stock transmission. 16k miles when I made the mods 83k miles now and still works like a champ.
Thanks again for the replies.
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From: Mobile Al
Mine didn't make the trip....My 4L60e went south after about 20 passes. At the time I was making 465 rwhp. Just finished my head work and had the trans rebuilt to stage two with a 2800 stall good for 900 rwhp.
Happy Motoring........
Happy Motoring........
Just to add in Jeremy at RPM is correct and its a common myth that the 4l65e or even the 4l70e is significantly stronger than the 4l60e in stock form and they are not.
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks for the warning about the 4L65e and 4L70e not being much stronger than the 4L60e.
Bop-Bop - What brand/model 2800 stall are you using? I have a TCI StreetFighter (3200-3400) now and hate it - too much slippage for street driving. Would prefer a 2400-2800.
Bop-Bop - What brand/model 2800 stall are you using? I have a TCI StreetFighter (3200-3400) now and hate it - too much slippage for street driving. Would prefer a 2400-2800.
Teching In
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From: Mobile Al
Chome in guys, can I post it?
Happy Motoring, Jeff
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im running a stock 4L65 in my gto.. with a 3600 stall and 175shot off the line on m/t slicks.. best time is 11.14 at 130mph spinning 1st and second gear.... itll go 10s soon, as i got the tires to hook it up
i should be somewhere in the 550whp range with my trap speed
i should be somewhere in the 550whp range with my trap speed
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Just a thought... 200-4r. Takes away all those electronics and has held into the 9's in GN's. Considering you have the 4l65E already, not so much... Idonno why more people don't opt for that old LIGHTWEIGHT and strong(when built) GM model when building an older car with an LS or other late model. Is it because of the electronics? I mean, it seems that can be the only drawback.
I dont know if thats a problem here but it is for me. That seems to be a reason for more than a few guys Ive come across as the new 58 tooth with l92 heads are becoming more available
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
While I think that swapping in an electronic trans (4L60E or 4L80E) is the preferred solution, you convert the 58x signal to 24x using the Lingenfelter TRG-002 58x-24x Crank Sensor Trigger Conversion Module; it costs $275. You would also need a cable throttle body.
If you want to continue this discussion, please tell us exactly what engine and PCM/ECM you have.
If you want to continue this discussion, please tell us exactly what engine and PCM/ECM you have.
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While I think that swapping in an electronic trans (4L60E or 4L80E) is the preferred solution, you convert the 58x signal to 24x using the Lingenfelter TRG-002 58x-24x Crank Sensor Trigger Conversion Module; it costs $275. You would also need a cable throttle body.
If you want to continue this discussion, please tell us exactly what engine and PCM/ECM you have.
If you want to continue this discussion, please tell us exactly what engine and PCM/ECM you have.
Then there's the lindenfelder box. I have heard giys never have a problem and guys that have had nothing but problems. I've heard of guys never having a problem and all of sudden there stuck some where. So I decided I didn't want to mess with that.
Ladt option is make the trans full manual shift. NahIf I don't really want to have to ratchet back and forth driving around. If I want a manual I'll get a manual
So only option is electronic trans.