4l60E what fails?
03-03-2012, 01:06 PM
#1
4l60E what fails? Hey folks,
Relatively new here, and certainly new to the 4L60 trans. Old school TH400 guy, add a 2nd gear sprag, clutches and go fast. Ok, a little more to it than that, but pretty bulletproof.
I have built all my own with good success.
4L60E? Don't know squat. Except they tend to break.
So, I have a C5 Vette that I plan to drag race. And autocross and drive cross country if I think it will be relaible.
I bought a spare clean low mile 01 4L60E to have rebuilt to minimize down time when I add the converter and diff.
I know the guys at A1 perf trans
http://www.a-1perf.com/
And they are going to go through it for me. Rather famous company but don't do a lot of these.
So what breaks in these? What are the weak links?
I'm going to deliver the trans to them and I'd like to have some knowledge of what to discuss for upgrades.
Also, I read that some use shift kits in these, others don't. Pro's and con's?
Thanks,
Ron
Relatively new here, and certainly new to the 4L60 trans. Old school TH400 guy, add a 2nd gear sprag, clutches and go fast. Ok, a little more to it than that, but pretty bulletproof.
I have built all my own with good success.
4L60E? Don't know squat. Except they tend to break.
So, I have a C5 Vette that I plan to drag race. And autocross and drive cross country if I think it will be relaible.
I bought a spare clean low mile 01 4L60E to have rebuilt to minimize down time when I add the converter and diff.
I know the guys at A1 perf trans
http://www.a-1perf.com/
And they are going to go through it for me. Rather famous company but don't do a lot of these.
So what breaks in these? What are the weak links?
I'm going to deliver the trans to them and I'd like to have some knowledge of what to discuss for upgrades.
Also, I read that some use shift kits in these, others don't. Pro's and con's?
Thanks,
Ron
03-03-2012, 02:28 PM
#2
The guys at A-1 get it done at a high level. I don't doubt that they can build you a nice transmission. But, this isn't a 2 or 3 speed that we can apply tried and true techniques to and it live long term in a racing application. The 60E is it's own animal.
There is much, much more to know about a 60E than purchasing a good parts package. There are several shops represented in this forum that I would call world call world class high performance 4L60E builders. Some of us push the envelope by developing parts specific for this unit. And even then, that's just components that are designed to keep the rotating assembly alive.
There has been much discussion here and in other forums about the balance between the hydraulics and the hard parts. If we bring the band off before we bring the 3/4 clutches on, we'll have a nasty flare. And if we don't get the band off in time, we'll rip the 3/4 clutches to shreds. So you can see that just by adding line pressure to help save soft parts we can run into trouble really quick!
The most common failure is the 3/4 clutch pack. And there is much to know about keeping it alive in high rpm, high powered combinations. After that it would be the input sprag, the pump and then the planetary gear sets.
Hope that helps... I suggest doing some research here on those specific components. There have been many countless threads over the years that can offer some deeper insight for you.
Good luck with your project!
g
There is much, much more to know about a 60E than purchasing a good parts package. There are several shops represented in this forum that I would call world call world class high performance 4L60E builders. Some of us push the envelope by developing parts specific for this unit. And even then, that's just components that are designed to keep the rotating assembly alive.
There has been much discussion here and in other forums about the balance between the hydraulics and the hard parts. If we bring the band off before we bring the 3/4 clutches on, we'll have a nasty flare. And if we don't get the band off in time, we'll rip the 3/4 clutches to shreds. So you can see that just by adding line pressure to help save soft parts we can run into trouble really quick!
The most common failure is the 3/4 clutch pack. And there is much to know about keeping it alive in high rpm, high powered combinations. After that it would be the input sprag, the pump and then the planetary gear sets.
Hope that helps... I suggest doing some research here on those specific components. There have been many countless threads over the years that can offer some deeper insight for you.
Good luck with your project!
g
03-03-2012, 03:57 PM
#3
Thank you Gilbert. I was hoping you might chime in.
I will do some more research here. Sure don't expect you to give away your secrets.
I know of the good 4L60E builders. I just wish they were close you know? Shipping these things isn't trivial. A1 is a 10 minute drive.
I know the trans in there now has the P1870 code, so it has issues. I believe that is a valve body issue that was addressed with the 01 model year trans. Mine is a 2000. When I bought the car, the code was conviently turned off. And the 1-2 shift is sometimes normal, sometimes real harsh for no aparrent reason. Previous owner also had the trans parameters changed. I need to learn about all those as well.
That is why I bought a later unit.
I go visit them next Sat. Maybe they aren't the ones to do this for me? I'll report back after.
BTW, the car will be N/A, and if I'm following the correct recipie, should get near 11 flat with drag radials. No plans to go faster. Uh huh!
I have a new Yank SS3600 converter as well.
Ron
I will do some more research here. Sure don't expect you to give away your secrets.
I know of the good 4L60E builders. I just wish they were close you know? Shipping these things isn't trivial. A1 is a 10 minute drive.
I know the trans in there now has the P1870 code, so it has issues. I believe that is a valve body issue that was addressed with the 01 model year trans. Mine is a 2000. When I bought the car, the code was conviently turned off. And the 1-2 shift is sometimes normal, sometimes real harsh for no aparrent reason. Previous owner also had the trans parameters changed. I need to learn about all those as well.
That is why I bought a later unit.
I go visit them next Sat. Maybe they aren't the ones to do this for me? I'll report back after.
BTW, the car will be N/A, and if I'm following the correct recipie, should get near 11 flat with drag radials. No plans to go faster. Uh huh!
I have a new Yank SS3600 converter as well.
Ron
03-04-2012, 02:28 AM
#4
I like to see a guy do his homework! Kudos for you man! And how can a guy argue with a shop like A-1 being in your back yard. That's just another plus if you ask me.
The people that know me best know that I am very, very big on relationships with my clients. Without the relationships we have nothing right? I say learn all you can and take your knowledge to the table at A-1 and get to know them. Help them help you. They didn't get to where they are by being "know it all's". Too many guys are so full of themselves they can't stop and learn something ya know... I think you'll be in good hands.
Don't hesitate to give me a call next week. I don't mind helping to steer you in the right direction.
g
The people that know me best know that I am very, very big on relationships with my clients. Without the relationships we have nothing right? I say learn all you can and take your knowledge to the table at A-1 and get to know them. Help them help you. They didn't get to where they are by being "know it all's". Too many guys are so full of themselves they can't stop and learn something ya know... I think you'll be in good hands.
Don't hesitate to give me a call next week. I don't mind helping to steer you in the right direction.
g
03-05-2012, 09:44 AM
#6
Common soft part issues are the stock 2nd gear band & 3-4 clutch pack. Under severe power the planetaries, sun reaction shell and input/output shaft are common hard part failure points. 4L60E uses a 4-pinion planet 65E uses a 5 for added strength (although my builder has only seen the 5s break). 65E also uses hardened input/output shafts for added strength. 65E also adds another clutch to the 3-4 pack but its stock strength and irrelevant as trans builds use nearly twice the clutch count with far more durable material.
03-05-2012, 10:59 AM
#7
I should be right around 500hp at the crank. Not severe.
I know of the 4 pin and 5 pin planetaries. I believe the 5 pin came in 4L65. I see there is a 4L70 now. Wonder what the differences are there. Probably don't need to know.
Thanks.
Ron
I know of the 4 pin and 5 pin planetaries. I believe the 5 pin came in 4L65. I see there is a 4L70 now. Wonder what the differences are there. Probably don't need to know.
Thanks.
Ron
