Team G

and make sure you put the biggest damn trans cooler you can fit on it too! even a th400 will melt down if you don't

jgarza54

iTrader: (4)

Thats odd, I did the 80 swap, and footbrake to footbrake, I went a best of 1.51 60' 4000 stall and 4.10s on the 60e. On the 80, I've gone a best of 1.54 60' 3600 stall and 4.10s. I have not played with the tbrake just yet. I'm suprised you dropped that much. I wonder if its do to you having 3.23 gears.

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

There is no way you should lose that much in the 60 if you have the proper converter....

jgarza54

iTrader: (4)

I wonder if he meant 5-7 hundredth

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

I disagree with this, do not expect such results. In fact, it is not uncommon at all to see people do better in the 1/4 mile after doing an 80e swap. It really all depends on your power level to determine when the 80e will slow you down or not. Losing .5-.7 sounds more like a converter issue than a trans issue. What power were you making, and what times were you running?

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

he states that he is talking about a 400 in the first line of his post.... not an 80e

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

He stated "either" unless he edited it.

They both have the same gearing 1-3. So should have almost the same effect.

I have NEVER seen anyone lose .5 tenths going to either unit.

As stated, if that occured, something was grossly wrong with the converter or the engine changed between the swap.

415470hp

iTrader: (9)

I would fell that going from a trans with out a transbrake to going to a trans WITH a transbrake should and will drop et's. However the 400 and 80 both have a 2.48 1st. A person can also upgrade 1st gear to I believe a 2.74 or 2.75, that along with a transbrake should be able to get you off the line.
5 tenths seems like alot, downright scary.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

The transbrake helps hit the tires like a manual car. A proper converter will work really good even footbraking.

I've done the 2.75 gearsets in some applications. I honestly can't tell the difference usually between them and a 2.48 gearset driving around or launching. The 2.48 gearset is stronger if it's a higher HP application or very heavy.

maddoglou454

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SuperSlow02

iTrader: (16)

Sometimes having lower gears in the trans is not a good thing, specially when your trying to lay the power down.

Team G

Your correct, my converter isn't quite right. I am going to be getting it loosened up and possibly restalled soon. Its a 3600 custom build ptc. its too damn tight (my fault, I asked for it that when it was a dd and street driven with plans of a turbo), and i don't see any where near 3600 fooT braking it on the motor. As I hit the kit, it zings to 3600 instantly.

When I first put this th400 in my car, it was on a stock motor, bolt ons, and same converter. I was getting at that time a 2.2 - 2.3 '60 times.

On the previous motor (same bolt ons, everything the same with the exception of the trans and new converter) with the 4l60e and a mid west 2300 stall converter, I was getting consistant 1.55-1.57 '60 foot times on nitto drag radials.

I was pretty bummed about this, and started researching to find out what was going on. Then I found out that the differences in the first gear ratios inside the two different trans. I went from a 3.06 first in the 4l60e, to a 2.48 fIrst in the th400. Again, at the time, all i did was swap the trans and converter. I have been told that restalling the converter would get me some of it back, but not all of it! that that first gear was doing just as much, if not the most damage to my '60 times. Guess I will never know for sure, cause that motor combo is long gone, the current one is on its way out the door, and a new is in the works. Plus I am going to be getting that new 2.97/1,57 first and second ger set up for the trans as well as have the converter loosened up for sure, possibly restalled too. Going to depend on the new cam, power range and all that. Once I know that, I will be having to converter matched to it this time

But the bottom line is, even if you put a th400 in your car, and get the converter working good and don't loose anything, your still leaving alot on the table when you compare the two different ratios. If your cars suspension and tire combo can handle it, your giving up alot by not upgrading to that 2.75 or 2.97 first gear.

I'm already taching 3k at 70mph with 3.23's. I don't want to put 3.73's or 4.10's in my car. Not interested in the extra wieght of 4l80e, or the awkwordness of a gvu either. originally, i wanted 4.10's and a gvu. But its too damn expensive, and adds to much wieght and complicates **** too damn much. The best fix for my problem, is the upraded first gear set. I get to save some money, space and weight undr the car, don't have spend money on the trans and the rear, keep my car cruising 3k or less at 70mph, and so on...I have looked at every angle, and thought out my plan of attack for rectifying the problem.

Just expect to loose something down low, or at the least know that your leaving a little on the table even if you get it right and working for you. Should have said it that way the first time, lol

and by the way, a TH400, and the 4L80E, both have the same 2.48 first gear in them. Here is a link on trans ratioshttp://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/leadfoot/trans.htm

LeanPocket

iTrader: (6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL2su...7m7a5XmMqpHAM=

i hope this aids you in your decision

you cant go wrong with either or, both great trannys, but a properly built 4l80 has its perks and you can DD everywhere you go

LeanPocket

iTrader: (6)

some go cheaper at the pick n pull

+1

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I'm more than well aware of the ratios of the transmissions.

If you think a 2.75 or 2.97 ratio gearset is going to pick your car up a bunch, you are mistaken.

The really deep low gear ratios have several inherent problems. One is that most combos can't hook them. Even if you can hook the ratio, you lose the momentum on a 1-2 shift, that the converter may or may not be able to help recover, and they are weaker by design.

In SOME combos we have used a 2.75 ratio successfully to make SMALL gains. As an example I'm speaking of Stock Eliminator cars that have an underpowered (relative term) engine, with a narrow power band, big stall, and DEEP gears typically and they are looking for hundredths ET. We do it with ratios, lightened parts, lower pressures, fewer clutches, other parasitic loss improvements, etc.

In any decent combo, even the 2.48 may be too steep. Hence the 2.10 gearsets for the TH400. If your motor is making power and car isn't super heavy, the 2.48 is as much ratio as you need and maybe too much.
Look at the typical Glide with a 1.80 ratio gearset.

Just a bit of advice from someone who does it day in and day out, but the trans wasn't your ET Killer.
Converter maybe...
Engine more likely.

Team G

Ok, then maybe you can explain why after all I did was swap out the trans and converter and th car went 7 tenths slower, in the first 60 feet hooking dead?

The conveter is bigger than the previous one on the stall. It desn't stall all the way to 3600 on the foot brake, but still hits 2200 to 2400 depending on how hot it is and how long in between rounds. That matches the previous converters stall speed that had just come out!

So now fast forward to my new motor, where I picked 2-3 tenths just swapping in the motor, but still no where near the consistent 1.57 short times I used to have.

My car is fll wieght too, by the way, hooks dead, still hooks dead. Hell, it bogs pretty bad out of the hole, but once it gets rolling, it screems;-)

The only explanation that makes any sense, is the dfference in that first gear!

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

The bog out of the hole is pretty telling as far as what the problem is...

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

The only thing that makes any sense acutally, is that your stall is wrong... foot braking to 2200 RPMs, is NOT a "3600" stall...

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

No kidding, was going to say that earlier when I saw this thread at work but I figured I'd just say it when I got home. Gregrob is right as well

Team G

Its a 3600 stall converter that I purposely ordered very tight for street use. That was a mistake! How ever, when I add any power with my kit, it opens right up to 3600! Its a ptc converter, and they don't build crapp! Its my fault for the way I ordered it, they built what I asked for. If I had turbo'ed the car like originally planned when I speced out and ordered the converter, it would be a different story. But I went a different route.

But either way, it stall now, exactly what used to stall on my old converter. I mean exactly! Litteraly the only difference after swapping trannies out is that damn first gear. I leave the same way, at the same stall speed, at the same wieght, on the same track, and on the same tire!

Would loosening up my converter help, yes it would, and I plan that very thing. But if car is capable of hooking with that 2.97 1st gear ratio, and I just loosen the converter up some, I will still be leaving some speed/time on the table. That is my point!

Unless you got a motor with a **** load off bottom end torque, or a loose converter that stalls in the nieghborhood of 4k (which isn't really streetable imo), your going to loose some time in the first hundred feet or so untill the motor gets wound up and the car starts moving.

Look, if all you do is swap in a th400 or 4l80e with out a gear upgrade and the same stall speed yur running now, expect your launch to soften up some. Some thing has to increase, either your trans gearing, rear end gearing, converter stall speed, low end torque, or some combo of two or more, or you launch WILL be softer! I did bsically none of that, an my experience unfortunately was the car slowing 7 tenths right out of the hole:-(