SingleMalt69

Long time lurker here, thanks for all the guidance over the years. I created an account to ask for some advice that I couldn't find with a search.

My 04 Escalade's transmission has failed spectacularly. It won't downshift past 2nd, so the first thing I did was a fluid change. I removed 3 gallons of burnt-smelling brown sludge that used to be transmission fluid, this after a complete change just 10,000 miles ago. Vehicle has 110k miles on it, no transmission problems to date, and regular service.

I spent the last couple days doing my research to decide if a rebuild or replacement would be the best option for me. I am a competent amateur, doing most of the service on my truck myself, but after reading numerous threads, including a real good one here, I decided a rebuild project is not for me for a variety of reasons. I do feel confident in buying a rebuilt unit and swapping it in, however.

So, in terms of a rebuilt replacement, I am looking for something as close to stock as possible, as I don't do anything extraordinary with the truck. The worst I do to it is hauling teenage kids into the mountains with all their snowboard gear in a Thule box on top. No towing or anything. That said, I'm willing to look at a rebuild that includes some of the more popular upgrades to the OEM components, if it will help with longevity. That is my most important factor - I don't want to do this again for at least another 110k, if I can help it.

Anybody have advice on good sources for a rebuilt 4l60e tranny, and the kind of prices I should be looking for? I did check out the sponsor here, and they have what looks like something that will meet my needs for $2400: http://www.performabuilt.com/heavy%2...20700-60E.html

Appreciate the help.

Steve V

Sounds like the 3/4 clutches are toast,quite common. Besure whoever replaces it flushes the cooler and replaces the cooler/rad if there's any question. A stock unit should cost about $1800 at your friendly dealer plus R&R .

Blackpanther99

iTrader: (8)

Gotta hate the fact that your escalade has a 4l60e lol I dont think spending money on a 60e is woth it. Specially for a heavy vehicle like an escalade lol. Ill just go with a 4l80e and call it a day.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Jasper transmissions are a good quality stock replacement and come with a stout warranty. If you're interested in a transmission that's really "built" for your specific needs, I would suggest talking to one or several of our sponsors.

lt1pwr1

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear about your trans but I guess you did pretty good considering the weight and all wheel drive Escalade- lots of work for a 4L60E.

Regarding your situation, Finish Line Transmission (Sponsor) has a great reputation and has a couple transmissions for under $2K http://www.finishlinetrans.com/transmissions/index.htm These are going to be built more than a stock 4L60e plus that company builds them for high HP applications (successfully) so I'm sure they can help you with what you are looking for.

Or, if you go the Dealer route the good thing is I'm pretty sure they do a 3 year 100K mile warranty on remanufactured units. That's a very good warranty/piece of mind if you ask me.

SingleMalt69

Yup - I have the M32 RPO in my glove box :-P I've read that the 80e is better for heavy duty usage, but I initially didn't consider it for my replacement, as I don't really do "heavy duty" stuff, like towing and whatnot. If, however, the 80e is going to be a better design leading to better longevity, I'm all for it.

Is this a simple swap, or are there additional modifications I have to do to make this happen? Just wondering if this is still a "competent amateur" project.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Jake's Transmissions is the leading shop in 80e conversions. There are lots of threads that discuss it in this forum, though most of them have to do with f-bodies. I'd do some reading and then talk to them if you're serious about going this route.

I will say, however, that if you got 110k from your 60e, you should be able to get a similar amount of life from a quality rebuilt unit.

mrvedit

Switching to a 4l80E would not be trivial. It would require a different torque converter, a major/custom program change to the PCM/TCM, possibly a different rear mounting and probably a shortened driveshaft.

In terms of a dealer rebuilt unit, I wonder if the warranty is only valid if installed by a GM approved shop.

SingleMalt69

So yes, I've done the research, and discovered the same, that switching to an 80 would not be a simple exercise. As RevGTO says, I did get 110k out of the original 60 that is in there right now, so putting a rebuilt 60 as a replacement seems OK to me.

That got me thinking though - the 4l65e is almost a drop in replacement for the 4l60e, at least according to this post here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/1969030-post6.html That looks like something I could do myself.

And it seems like there are some moderate upgrades to the 65 as compared to the 60. Lots to think about, I guess.

Good point on the warranty - I suppose a dealer would need to do the work, and that means $2000 labor.

mrvedit

A 4L65E of a similar year IS A drop in replacement; a 2002-2006 4L65E would work in your car. The primary differences are 5-pinion planetaries, 7-friction 3-4 clutch and a hardened input shaft.
I think your $2000 labor charge is way too high; probably more in the $800-$1000 range. The dealer charges by the number of hours listed in "the book"; find out what that is and multiply by the labor rate. Ask nicely and you might get a 10% discount.

HighMileageC4

I would seriously look at Finish line level 3 for $1595. I dont think you will find anyone giving a higher quality unit at that price:
- Rollerized sonnax smartshell
- extra wide band
- borg warner 8 clutch
- extra wide sprag which is even heavier duty than borg warner dual cage 29
- vette servo which which may not be in your trans
- all of thir valve body and hydraullic upgrades.

FLt recently helped me setup my 4l60e drum and when
I saw the quality of their work I was stunned. Chuck is an artist. He had a couple of units just ready for assembly. Internal parts were polished, cases were blasted cleaner than new. He also machines the pump and hard parts so they are blueprinted.

On my drum he cleaned up my shafts on a lathe and did some little things to perfection. After seeing this, I was kicking myself because, I have over a thousand dollars in hard part upgrades, and my rebuild is not near what I would have gotten with their craftsmanship. I have the pride I did it myself, but for a few hundred more, I would be getting a work of art comparable to what the highest end racing engine shops do to motors.

At $1595 you are getting a blueprinted, upgraded unit that is better than what comes from the factory. I do not believe anyone is giving you more for your hard earned money and the quality will be un matched.

SingleMalt69

Yeah, I stumbled across that too: http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...rmance4L60.htm

Thanks for the details on this shop and their workmanship. It's much easier to drop $1600 with an unbiased reference, than from random web-surfing.

Much appreciated!

HighMileageC4

In my opinion the FLT would be a better option than a new 4l65e.

You would be getting a better sunshell, the band, and the 8 clutch setup as well as the sprag. All of this would help you in a heavy truck application.

The blueprinting is better than what you get from the factory.

For your application, you don,t need upgraded shafts. Also the main upgrade on a 65e are the 5 pinion planets and there are many 9 and 10 sec vehicles living happily with 4 pinion planets. So again for your application, 4 pinion would be ok. You can ask FLT for their opinion.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

If you are replacing this trans I would A. not put a stock or stock rebuilt unit back in the truck and B. not do an 80 conversion. I would put a nicely conservative built 60 back in it. There is no reason to not improve the trans during a rebuild......I'm not fond on telling a surgeon what scalpel to use during surgery, and every trans builder knows the parts that has worked in the past for him. Find some competent builders, tell them your expectations and let them give you their build suggestions. I did the exact thing to our local 60e expert and my trans has been a dream since the install.

SingleMalt69

Well, I called FLT this morning - real nice guy, helped me out quite a bit. Once of the interesting things we discussed was his insistence that I have a 4l65e in my truck. As a reminder, this is a 04 Escalade with the 6.0L engine (LQ9).

I have double checked my RPO codes and I definitely have a M32 listed in the glove box. Every RPO lookup I can find translates this into a 4l60e (e.g. http://www.gm-trucks.com/rpo-code-lookup/?find=m32). I crawled around under the truck trying to find a label/marking on the trans itself, but I can't see anything that indicates the model. Since I haven't pulled it yet, this may be on top where I can't see it, however.

FLT does sell a rebuilt 4l65e, but at $700 more than the 4l60e. (http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...meDuty4L65.htm) I thought the FLT 4l60e was too good to be true...

How would I know for sure which model trans is in my truck?

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

65 is simply a better version of the 60, not a different trans. They would look identical on the outside. I believe the 65 version was GMs go to in applications such as an LQ9 in a Caddy. FLT knows their stuff so if he says it came stock with a 65, I'd believe him. Don't quote me but I thought maybe they started phasing the 60 out around that time anyway? Anyone know?

mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

id take chucks word when it comes to a tranny. Im running one and its been great and thats the basic 4l60e. do it right the first time and get a good unit.

SingleMalt69

Well, I talked with Chuck again, and ordered up one of the 65's linked above. Real nice guy.

It just so happens that I will be traveling to Chicago in January a couple of times, so I can pick up the new trans and drop off the core....saves a bunch of dough on shipping.

Thanks for your help here, and I'll check back in when I get the truck up and running again.

mjs1012

iTrader: (36)

Well that's easy. What's your turn around time? When I ordered mine last spring I waited about a month before it was completed and shipped out.

SingleMalt69

15 day turnaround.