4L60E Shift Problems
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
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From: Key West
4L60E Shift Problems Ok, car is 94 Formula bone stock. AIR, and EGR Delete, Pacesetter Headers, 52mm Throttle Body.
I started having WOT shift problems after the Throttle Body swap. I drained tranny fluid, replaced filter (fluid wasn't terrible, slightly burnt, mild metal in pan) with no change. I did tons of research and found that changing the throttle body affects the tranny shifts so I found a few .lt1 files that had been modded for bigger throttle bodys and spliced those tranny values into my current tune. I changed the line pressure and force motor values, as well as increasing the 1-2, 2-3 shift points to be higher at lower TPS.
For a few days it worked great. Nice firm shifts, even a few WOT shifts. The problem is coming back, and now making the shifts at part throttle sluggish.
I have logged with datamaster and "Scan9495" and the only thing that looks wrong is "1-2 shift error" and "2-3 shift error". These numbers are super high when the tranny is cold, and decrease as it warms up, never droping below 3 on the 1-2 and 5 on the 2-3.
My question is, can I get away with a transgo kit, or am I in for a complete rebuild. From what I have read I could just have a bad boost valve/ 1-2 accumlater, or it could just be worn seals through out. Any help would be appreciated. I hate doing something twice...
I can upload my current tune but I haven't found a way to "save" trans data yet, other than screen capture.
I started having WOT shift problems after the Throttle Body swap. I drained tranny fluid, replaced filter (fluid wasn't terrible, slightly burnt, mild metal in pan) with no change. I did tons of research and found that changing the throttle body affects the tranny shifts so I found a few .lt1 files that had been modded for bigger throttle bodys and spliced those tranny values into my current tune. I changed the line pressure and force motor values, as well as increasing the 1-2, 2-3 shift points to be higher at lower TPS.
For a few days it worked great. Nice firm shifts, even a few WOT shifts. The problem is coming back, and now making the shifts at part throttle sluggish.
I have logged with datamaster and "Scan9495" and the only thing that looks wrong is "1-2 shift error" and "2-3 shift error". These numbers are super high when the tranny is cold, and decrease as it warms up, never droping below 3 on the 1-2 and 5 on the 2-3.
My question is, can I get away with a transgo kit, or am I in for a complete rebuild. From what I have read I could just have a bad boost valve/ 1-2 accumlater, or it could just be worn seals through out. Any help would be appreciated. I hate doing something twice...
I can upload my current tune but I haven't found a way to "save" trans data yet, other than screen capture.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
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From: Key West
A little more info on the symptoms:
Won't shift at WOT 1-2
Slips when cold in 2nd at about 3-4k. I back off when it slips.
Clunk spring is bad? noise and bang on downshift, low tps input. Tranny mount is good.
I have tried unplugging the MAF with no affect.
TPS sensor appears normal. New one in the mail just in case.
Known Problems:
Collector gasket blew out (I used what came with the headers...) Coppers in the mail. This is throughing my O2 readings off a bit, but headers where done in the middle of the tranny issues.
Vac leak at evap somewhere, constant through out the timeline here.
Won't shift at WOT 1-2
Slips when cold in 2nd at about 3-4k. I back off when it slips.
Clunk spring is bad? noise and bang on downshift, low tps input. Tranny mount is good.
I have tried unplugging the MAF with no affect.
TPS sensor appears normal. New one in the mail just in case.
Known Problems:
Collector gasket blew out (I used what came with the headers...) Coppers in the mail. This is throughing my O2 readings off a bit, but headers where done in the middle of the tranny issues.
Vac leak at evap somewhere, constant through out the timeline here.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
It sounds like its time for an overhaul with a few upgrades. If it is slipping in second when driving normal and not shifting 1-2 when WOT then the band is most likely burnt up. The burnt smelling/looking fluid with metal in it isnt a very good sign either.
Probably not what you wanted to hear but if it's not junk now it sounds like its very close...
Probably not what you wanted to hear but if it's not junk now it sounds like its very close...
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Key West
Awesome... I just got done trying the Lucas Oil stop slip stuff, Why not right? and i did get the shift errors down to almost nothing, but its still slipping at the higher RPMs in 2nd. I've been looking at a few full kits and was wondering what the opinions were.
http://www.700r4l60e.com/store/produ...&cat=22&page=1
This kit looks pretty complete, what do you guys think? I'm up in the air on building it myself/ having some one who actually knows what they are doing, and buying a re-man one. I've done a few 700r4s without a problem, but again, I hate doing things twice
Thanks again for the quick reply!
http://www.700r4l60e.com/store/produ...&cat=22&page=1
This kit looks pretty complete, what do you guys think? I'm up in the air on building it myself/ having some one who actually knows what they are doing, and buying a re-man one. I've done a few 700r4s without a problem, but again, I hate doing things twice
Thanks again for the quick reply!
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,322
Likes: 528
From: Ann Arbor, MI
A slipping 1-2 shift indicates a likely worn band and time for a rebuild.
That is a nice kit from member and pro builder PBA who often answer questions here.
IMO the best kit on ebay is this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-LEVE...-/261204564986
This 4L65E kit includes 7 frictions for the 3-4 clutch and uses Raybestos latest hi-energy frictions. There are cheaper kits on ebay and they are just that - cheap.
That is a nice kit from member and pro builder PBA who often answer questions here.
IMO the best kit on ebay is this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-LEVE...-/261204564986
This 4L65E kit includes 7 frictions for the 3-4 clutch and uses Raybestos latest hi-energy frictions. There are cheaper kits on ebay and they are just that - cheap.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
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From: Key West
Well that is definately cheaper than the PBA one. Looking thru the parts list I'm not seeing a lot of the common problem stuff like the sun shell, pressure plates and sprags. Are you suggesting I go the ebay route and then order parts as needed after tear down? At nearly 500 cheaper that is definately a nice looking kit!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Key West
Hey MRVEDIT, so what do you think of the kit you reccomended plus a transgo hd kit? I definately like that the true tech kit doesn't have a lot of valve body parts, but I'm still a little concerned about the accumulators and epc screen. What are your thoughts on what I should do on the valve body while I have it apart?
Trending Topics
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,322
Likes: 528
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Sorry, I should have linked to a more complete kit. Several people here have bought from TruTechTrans (both on ebay and .com) and been very happy. Here is a very complete kit that even includes a new reverse drum:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-LEVE...-/261204229088
I would call (Jeff is the owner) and ask to get that kit upgraded to the 7-friction 3-4 clutch; he might have another kit available too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-LEVE...-/261204229088
I would call (Jeff is the owner) and ask to get that kit upgraded to the 7-friction 3-4 clutch; he might have another kit available too.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Key West
Ok, so I think I'm going to get the trutech stage 1 kit, 0lus a transgo kit. Any reccomendations for a torque converter. I was thinking 2-2500 stall... Just not sure who is cheapest/ best.
Also, the car seems to shift fine manual, and doesn't slip in at all. Is it possible there is still something weird in my tune? I'm really curious why it shifts fine manual but shifts sluggish auto....
Thanks again guys
Also, the car seems to shift fine manual, and doesn't slip in at all. Is it possible there is still something weird in my tune? I'm really curious why it shifts fine manual but shifts sluggish auto....
Thanks again guys
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,322
Likes: 528
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Ok, so I think I'm going to get the trutech stage 1 kit, 0lus a transgo kit. Any reccomendations for a torque converter. I was thinking 2-2500 stall... Just not sure who is cheapest/ best.
Also, the car seems to shift fine manual, and doesn't slip in at all. Is it possible there is still something weird in my tune? I'm really curious why it shifts fine manual but shifts sluggish auto....
Thanks again guys
Also, the car seems to shift fine manual, and doesn't slip in at all. Is it possible there is still something weird in my tune? I'm really curious why it shifts fine manual but shifts sluggish auto....
Thanks again guys
If your trans has never been rebuilt, it really needs it after 19 years. I suspect the valve body is well worn which creates strange symptoms. That might need to get rebuilt/replaced too, but if can wait until later if you like.
There are probably 100+ threads here starting with "What converter should I get". I found 2400 a bit too low and 3600 a bit too high. But lots of people here think 4000 is just fine for DD. Spend the money and get a good one; that means $500+. Those TCI $350 ones are just GM V6 converters modified for a higher stall spped. CircleD ($500 or $800), Revmax ($500 or $800) or Yank ($700) are the sponsors and are all good. If you want more converter advice, start a new thread.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Key West
Well gents, I took the plung and am bidding on an M6 conversion. I've already downloaded a stock tune and stage 2 tune for cars with the same set-up. I ordered the pig tails for reverse lights, vss, and reverse lock out. I'm currently looking into through out bearings, clutches etc... I may start a new thread when I start the conversion in a couple weeks, but there seems to be a lot of info on the subject.
Thanks for all the help, this site rocks.
Thanks for all the help, this site rocks.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Key West
I just completed to a4 to m6 swap. Everything works! ( except skip shift)
All totaled up I spent about 1 k more to swap to m6 than to rebuild the auto. It seems to me that doing the swap was way less technically involved. I completed the swap in just over 12 hours. Figuring out the reverse lockout took another 2 hours.
Moral of the story, if your auto dies, it might be easier to just do the swap. It will cost more, but you are basically doing the same procedure, only you have to add the pedals.
I used hawksthirdgen for the kit. It wasn't the cheapest, and did not come complete. 1 phone call and they shipped the extra hardware next day, no cost to me.
Thanks again guys for helping trouble shoot my problems. I have a complete a4 set for sale, tranny needs some work!! Selling on the cheap, shipping is from key west though
All totaled up I spent about 1 k more to swap to m6 than to rebuild the auto. It seems to me that doing the swap was way less technically involved. I completed the swap in just over 12 hours. Figuring out the reverse lockout took another 2 hours.
Moral of the story, if your auto dies, it might be easier to just do the swap. It will cost more, but you are basically doing the same procedure, only you have to add the pedals.
I used hawksthirdgen for the kit. It wasn't the cheapest, and did not come complete. 1 phone call and they shipped the extra hardware next day, no cost to me.
Thanks again guys for helping trouble shoot my problems. I have a complete a4 set for sale, tranny needs some work!! Selling on the cheap, shipping is from key west though
