4l60E time for a rebuild?
4l60E time for a rebuild? I had previously posted in another members' thread but thought it may be more beneficial to post my own. I had an issue where the trans shifts into 4th and free rev's. It was able to limp home by manually shifting 1-2-3 then D but if I didn't keep a steady pedal it would slip again. Seems like a 2-4 band to me, but for reference my mods are in my sig. It's a stock 4L60E with 114k miles and a 3200rpm stall afaik (PO did the converter so I don't know the brand). Am I looking at having to rebuild the trans? If I am going to have to rebuild it I have a performance rebuilder/shop in mind.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 189
Likes: 12
From: Newman Lake, WA
You say that it just "free revs" in 4th. Do you mean that it acts like it's in neutral? Because even if the band is rendered completely ineffective, you should still be in 3rd gear in that situation.
It's usually 2nd gear that goes away before 4th gear when you lose the band, though, due to there being much greater force against the band in 2nd than in 4th. I routinely see failed bands that won't hold anymore in 2nd, but will still hang on in 4th. Part of it also has to do with the direction the reverse input drum is spinning when the band is called upon to stop it and hold it stationary. In 2nd gear, the drum is spinning opposite of engine rotation, and in 4th it is spinning with engine rotation. I've seen broken band anchors give some weird symptoms as well...
In either case, the bad news is that you, most likely, are looking at a transmission build at this point...
It's usually 2nd gear that goes away before 4th gear when you lose the band, though, due to there being much greater force against the band in 2nd than in 4th. I routinely see failed bands that won't hold anymore in 2nd, but will still hang on in 4th. Part of it also has to do with the direction the reverse input drum is spinning when the band is called upon to stop it and hold it stationary. In 2nd gear, the drum is spinning opposite of engine rotation, and in 4th it is spinning with engine rotation. I've seen broken band anchors give some weird symptoms as well...
In either case, the bad news is that you, most likely, are looking at a transmission build at this point...
Yes it is just like it's in neutral. I was thinking it would be time for a rebuild. There goes $2500 haha. Thank you for your input Dynamic. I'm thinking of adding an aux trans cooler after the rebuild, and maybe a deep trans pan for extra cooling.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 189
Likes: 12
From: Newman Lake, WA
It shouldn't lighten your wallet by that much, but I hear ya...!
And, yes, both an aux cooler and a deep pan are highly recommended...especially with a 3200 rpm converter.
BTW, do you like that converter with the CC503 cam? Seems like a lot of converter for that camshaft...
And, yes, both an aux cooler and a deep pan are highly recommended...especially with a 3200 rpm converter.
BTW, do you like that converter with the CC503 cam? Seems like a lot of converter for that camshaft...
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
While Dynamic396 is probably right, there is a slight chance that a cracked 4th servo piston or the seal on it is causing your no-4th problem. Usually if 1-2-3 work well, then the internals of the trans are good.
In another 6-month old thread the OP had no 4th after a rebuild, and after checking the servo carefully, a replacement Valve Body fixed it. Unfortunately I never learned where the VB problem was.
Dynamic396: Thank for the info that the reverse drum is rotating in opposite directions in 2nd versus 4th. That is good to know and I see how a marginal band might hold in one direction but not the others. Very educational.
In another 6-month old thread the OP had no 4th after a rebuild, and after checking the servo carefully, a replacement Valve Body fixed it. Unfortunately I never learned where the VB problem was.
Dynamic396: Thank for the info that the reverse drum is rotating in opposite directions in 2nd versus 4th. That is good to know and I see how a marginal band might hold in one direction but not the others. Very educational.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 189
Likes: 12
From: Newman Lake, WA
You're right that a cracked 4th servo piston or a bad seal will cause a no 4th condition. It's just not really something that I ever see on tear down. Most seal damage that I see is the result of careless assembly...obviously something that would show up right away after rebuild.
A common mistake in the valve body that would give a no 4th condition is to put the 3-4 relay valve in backwards. I've seen that done many times by the first-timer...
A common mistake in the valve body that would give a no 4th condition is to put the 3-4 relay valve in backwards. I've seen that done many times by the first-timer...
Trending Topics
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
You're right that a cracked 4th servo piston or a bad seal will cause a no 4th condition. It's just not really something that I ever see on tear down. Most seal damage that I see is the result of careless assembly...obviously something that would show up right away after rebuild.
Thanks for the info. Learning a lot today.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo It shouldn't lighten your wallet by that much, but I hear ya...!
And, yes, both an aux cooler and a deep pan are highly recommended...especially with a 3200 rpm converter.
BTW, do you like that converter with the CC503 cam? Seems like a lot of converter for that camshaft...
And, yes, both an aux cooler and a deep pan are highly recommended...especially with a 3200 rpm converter.
BTW, do you like that converter with the CC503 cam? Seems like a lot of converter for that camshaft...
As far as the converter I like it, I do not seem to have an issue with the CC503 already installed and even considered a re-stall to 3600. It has lock up so maybe that is why I find it tolerable while on the street. Thank you both for the advice and information.
Last edited by TManZ28; May 30, 2013 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Adding info
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Considering that in Chicago a sandwich is $14 plus $5 for a drink and parking is $50/day, the R&R labor rate sounds very good. My local trans shop pays $4.50/quart for Dexron VI (full synthetic), times 12 quarts is $54. I thought converters were more in the $150 range for an open and clean.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 189
Likes: 12
From: Newman Lake, WA
I'm unfortunately unable to do my own R&R on the trans because my back. I will be having another spinal fusion (this time possibly from L3-S1, I already have L5-S1 done.). So $480 labor (R&R plus line flush), $180 synthetic fluid, $1750 level 4 rebuild is $2410 plus having to send off the converter to be checked and made like new again is about $200-$300 plus UPS. It adds up quick haha. Do those prices seem about right for the Chicago area?
As far as the converter I like it, I do not seem to have an issue with the CC503 already installed and even considered a re-stall to 3600. It has lock up so maybe that is why I find it tolerable while on the street. Thank you both for the advice and information.
As far as the converter I like it, I do not seem to have an issue with the CC503 already installed and even considered a re-stall to 3600. It has lock up so maybe that is why I find it tolerable while on the street. Thank you both for the advice and information.
I definitely wouldn't go to 3600 with your converter with that 503 cam. In fact, I bet you'd pick up some performance by dropping down to around 2800 or so. At 224/230 on a 112, it's just not that large of a camshaft. I have used the 503 on a few occasions, and it makes decent low-mid range torque, so that's where you'll want your converter. At 3200 (and certainly at 3600), I think you're over the top of the cam. Just my $.02...
I'm having Vince do mine, going to drop off the car today. It's pretty much everything short of the 5 pinion planetaries and a hardened output shaft. Thank you for the advice about the converter. I'll have a talk with him about the converter and if he thinks I should change the stall. I still have a stock 10 bolt (I know I know lol) with 3.73's so idk if I will be heading to the track with it anytime soon.
Thanks, is he still on LS1tech? I just got done dropping it off and I have a few more things to get looked at. Pretty sure I'm going with an aux trans cooler and a manual radiator fan switch. When I get it home it will be getting a T/A diff cover to help lengthen the life of my 10 bolt. Have either of you heard good things about the diff cover?
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks, is he still on LS1tech? I just got done dropping it off and I have a few more things to get looked at. Pretty sure I'm going with an aux trans cooler and a manual radiator fan switch. When I get it home it will be getting a T/A diff cover to help lengthen the life of my 10 bolt. Have either of you heard good things about the diff cover?
T/A diff cover? Do you mean a cast aluminum one with the adjustable bolts to hold the bearing covers more firmly? I have one, but also had my tubes welded tot he case, Moser axles, Eaton posi.
Haha yeah I bet he is burned out. I am probably going to get the T/A cover (the aluminum one with the studs for the bearings and the drain/fill plugs) and was considering the moser axles. How well has your rear end with all of those add on's held up?
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
It has held up for 60+ track runs at 500hp on drag radials.
Last edited by mrvedit; May 31, 2013 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Typo
Haha, nice! I know the axles are about $249 and the differential cover is around $149. I may have to do without the posi unit for now though unless I can find a good deal on one.
