ez2cdave

Personally, I like the 5-Speed version with the 2.98, 2.24, 1.57, 1.00, & .75 Gear Ratio's ( skipping the 1.18 "4th Gear" ).

ez2cdave

I like the 5-Speed version with the 2.98, 2.24, 1.57, 1.00, & .75 (4th Gear is skipped - 1.18 ).

Jake mentioned a 2.75 gear set. Does that only change 1st gear or does it affect all gears ?

ez2cdave

That "5-speed setup" looks very appealing to me with the 2.98 gear set . . . 4L80E 2.98 - 2.24 - 1.57 - skipped -1.00 - .75 ( in this setup, the 1.18 "4th gear" would be skipped, making it a 5 speed ).

DREAMZ28

iTrader: (1)

I would think 1.57 down to 1.00 would be a steep drop for a shift, don't you think it'd make you bog the last 1000'?

TEDSgrad

N/A LSx, 3.42 gear, driver with a couple HPDE's/year - Road & Track.
Is strip & drag the only demographic, here?
Reading...waiting...watching...

mrvedit

I don't see many references to road coarse racing and HPDE here. In a very recent post a member said his well-built 4L60E (plural) repeatedly failed due to overheating in long races, even with the largest coolers and modest stall speed.

Personally I bought my BMW expressively for HPDEs. I've seen late model Corvettes and Camaros at these events, but I think they all had manual transmissions. No idea how well a 6L80E holds up; but you definitely want a low stall speed to reduce heat.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

you always like to say the 6 speed has no performance advantage.....

but I have the TCI 6x, and have proven in the real world.....that I went faster with the 6x than I did with a 4L80

and a buddy of mine went faster with the 6x than he did with his TH400 or his 6l80

both of our transmissions are holding up just fine...
I beat on mine with a 350 shot for a lot of passes


sorry, I dont have a Glide to compare to.....so I cant say if it would go faster or not...but typically you dont go to a glide unless you are a lightweight car or making more power than everything else can really handle.



when you think about your MPH at the track...
sure theres another shift....
and its not like you are suddenly shifting for 6 gears at the track
most people will have one extra shift, not two...
but the rpm drop is less and keeps you in the power band better.... that outweighs the slight bit of extra shift time.

with a 28" tire, and a 3.50 rear gear, and a 7200 shift point you will be at 145mph before you hit the end of 4th gear(end of 3rd at 109)
and you've added a mechanical advantage of gearing while with still having a good overdrive gear for highway cruising (6th gear, 2200 rpm at 70 mph)

do the Gear Math for total gear ratio
TCI 6x with 3.50
10.40 7.81 5.50 4.13 3.50 2.63
70 MPH = 2200 RPM

4L80 with 3.50
8.68 5.18 3.50 2.63
70 MPH = 2200 RPM

4l80 with a 4.10
10.17 6.07 4.10 3.08
70 MPH = 2600 RPM



and as always, they key to ANY transmission combo...is Proper Gearing and proper torque converter
without those 2 things...it wont matter what transmission you put in.

mrvedit

Having read many of your posts I know you are very analytic and precise.
If you have posted those results, please include the link here as I will use it the next time someone asks about the 6x TCI. Thanks.

yat1833yas

I have a 2002 chevy 2500 496ci, 4L80E, 4.88 gears and 46" tires I see the taller first gear and the rest to Make a Lil more torque and keep it though out the shifting

ULTM8Z

Agreed. I definitely respect Jake and his knowledge about transmissions. But yeah, I want one of these things (whether it's logical or illogical to the high end racer... I just want one). I think the extra gears would definitely benefit the "street driven, cruiser" Camaro like mine with a "mild" 400 hp small block. And the paddle shifting would definitely be a cool factor on top of it.

Yeah, in the racing world with guys up in the 600+ hp range, there could be arguable benefits/drawbacks to a 6 speed 4L80E. But for the typical street cruiser that really only sees weekend crusing with some occasional WOT blasts up an on ramp every now and then, I think lots of folks would fit into my category and would definitely want one like I do.

In reality (and ironically), I think the benefit would be most noticeable during normal driving. Shifting into 2nd wouldn't result in such a bog. I wouldn't to shift out of first at ~3500 rpm in order to get a decent pull starting in 2nd.

It's too bad Jake isn't making a conversion kit for this type of thing as I'm sure he'd come up with something really slick.

jacb

PCS seem to have stopped making the 6 speed valve body for the 4L80E ..... Anyone know where I might find old stock?


Anyone got one for sale?

saleh660

How will the stock ECU control the 6 speed valve body ??

for the valve body try Zero Gravity Performance.

jacb

Thanks saleh660

I have spoken with Jim Miller of Zero Gravity Performance zerogravityperformance@hotmail.com unfortunately he has no stock!

Re the TCU .... you need a PCS TCM-2000 .... These are also out of production having been replaced by the TCM-2800.... But it is still possible to find a TCM-2000 because it worked for so many other transmission, there are a lot of them out there.

If I cant get the PCS 6 Speed Valve body I may have to look once again at the TCI 6x but there were many issues with their valve body some of which were described here: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/6-sp...0e-285594.html

To be fair to TCI that thread was back in 2014 .... I have written to TCI to ask if any mods have been made since then? Eg Do they now offer engine breaking?

mrvedit

I think many members here could offer you that. I have done it a few times.

Seriously - interesting new information and eager to learn more.

poorhousenext

No engine braking to date with 6X. I know they have looked into it, but doubt if it will ever come to be.

I read the thread you posted. Harsh shifting, is a part of how fast each shift occurs. 1st to 2nd is the harshest under full throttle as it the slowest. 2nd to 3rd & up ect, under racing condition I don't feel.

Part of the problem with harsh shifts could be a result of TQ stall choice. Due to gearing being close ratio, the RPM lost between shifts is below what the % numbers for a 4L tranmissions say will be the average percent of RPM lost between shifts. That leaves you with possibility of needing high stall converter for launch only.

Now because I'm old, (73years) I know how to get 6x to not have harsh shifts normal driving, unless I'm getting into throttle. It's as simple as understanding how throttle pedals work, and how the gear spacing can move the car normally, with light steady pedal....LOL

My car'a engine only makes 360 RWHP, and cams design makes peak HP at 5800 RPM. Not what you call a race setup. Car weighs 3565 lbs with me an around 4 gallons of fuel in it, that makes for a 9.97 LBs of weight per HP, has 3.55 rear gear, 300 Tread wear street tires. Due to chassis setup , 52% of weight is on the rear tires, an with me in it the right rear tire still has 10 more pounds weight on it than driver's side does. Converter is stall at 2800 RPM, only slightly above stock, with efficient STR.

Not a lot going for for car, but even with all the above, runs 11.79-11.9 with lousy 1.91-2.01 60' times. We want talk about how long it takes for me to realize the light turned green...LOL

Now I'm building a 2nd similar car, that I'm going to try and run 10's in 1/4 mile with only 400 RWHP, same 6X transmission, converter stall, 300 Tread Wear street tires, 3.55 rear gear etc. My problem in doing this right now is keeping the engine HP at 400 or slightly below.

Maybe the below video will help you understand just how fasts each shift occurs, while trans is being paddled shifted, it the same full auto. Man didn't believe it would paddle shift as stated, so my builder took him for a ride.

http://www.scottiedtv.com/?s=test+drive+lydia

Note: It's the transmission gear spacing that works for me. 4th gear is 3.55 X 1.18 = 4.18 ratio. 4th is passing gear also, and it's a blast to be cruising at 70 MPH at 2125 RPM, mash the throttle to floor, converter flashes to 2800 RPM as it downshifts into 4th for passing. You don't want high flash/stall converter with it.

Is trans for everyone, NO, it's for people that understand it's gearing benefits that allows for both daily driving or a little track enjoyment too.

saleh660

4l80e and 6speed valve body plus tcm2650 controller is alot cheaper than TCI 6x for me specially with the shipping to my country.
Another option is to go with 6l80e locally from junkyard and tcm2650 but again on zerogravityperformance.com there is a note saying The TCM-2600 is not a replacement for internal controllers. You still need to program and tune the internal controllers in most applications .
I am not sure how I will program and tune the internal controller as I am running aftermarket efi system

jacb

Readers of this thread may be interested to hear what Vince of PCS vince@powertraincontrolsolutions.com said when I asked him (May 2015) if the PCS 6 Valve Body also had Harsh (TCI Style) shifting:

"Thank you for your interest in PCS products. Our valve body was designed in house from the ground up with no help or input from TCI. I have no knowledge of their fluid flow diagrams. When we designed our valve body it was implemented with factory like shift quality in mind. This thought process led us to strive for shift control while maintaining the ability to adjust the shifts to be more firm if necessary. Our valve body can be calibrated to shift very much like a factory 4L80E provided it's used with a stock transmission. Elevated spring rate boost pressure valves can cause any transmission to be difficult to tune for shift firmness so we suggest using a completely stock transmission if possible."

His reply and the fact that the PCS 6 Speed Valve Body DOES offer engine breaking made me decide that the PCS valve body was the way to go for my road car. So why didn't I buy one then? Because I hoped that PCS would soon release a stand alone TCU for the GM 6Lxxx ..... I hade no idea that they would stop selling the 6 speed valve body and not come forward with a stand alone aftermarket TCU for the 6L (I hope to replace my 3 speed TF727/GV OD with a six speed OD Auto).


IF ANYONE HAS A PCS 6 SPEED 4L80E VALVE BODY THEY WANT TO SELL PLEASE GET IN TOUCH.

jacb

I wrote to PATC re their Bionic 60 http://www.redrider.us/4l80e_perform...nsmissions.htm you may be surprised by their answer:

Randy patcsales36@gmail.com Had this to say: "No one offers the 6 speed 4l80 anymore due to problems in the computer and the transmission not lasting, only the 4 speeds are currently available."

This begs the question, was this only an issue with the PCS 6 Speed valve body & the PCS TCM-2000 Programing?

Or is TCI having a similar problem with the TCI 6X?

Did anyone have issues with the 6 Speed PCS Valve Body/TCU that they can share with us?

jacb

The only problem is can you actually get your hands on a 6 Speed valve body for a 4L80e?

If not its a "one horse" race for the TCI 6X no matter what it costs!

mrvedit

2 or 3 years ago I got the same story from Vince @ PCS.
Later I spoke to a member here who said he had been an engineer working on the 6-speed at TCI and that it was a joint PCS and TCI project.
I would take PATC's comment with a grain of salt.
Most likely the low volume was not enough for PCS to continue supporting/manufacturing the 6-speed VB.