4l60e no forward gears
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
Your input drum is fine; just wanted to be sure it wasn't from a '93 or something like that.
That is a stiff snap ring, but should go in just fine. I recall something like .030 clearance for the forward clutch. I use what are called "horseshoe lock ring pliers" to install/remove these snap rings. I have a very nice but now discontinued Craftsman tool, but I see another company making one:
http://www.marlincrawler.com/hardwar...ap-ring-pliers
This tools from Amazon looks close:
Stanley Proto J250G Proto 9-Inch Lock Ring Horseshoe Washer Pliers - Snap Ring Pliers - Amazon.com
The tool fits in between the snap ring and the inner edge of the drum.
That is a stiff snap ring, but should go in just fine. I recall something like .030 clearance for the forward clutch. I use what are called "horseshoe lock ring pliers" to install/remove these snap rings. I have a very nice but now discontinued Craftsman tool, but I see another company making one:
http://www.marlincrawler.com/hardwar...ap-ring-pliers
This tools from Amazon looks close:
Stanley Proto J250G Proto 9-Inch Lock Ring Horseshoe Washer Pliers - Snap Ring Pliers - Amazon.com
The tool fits in between the snap ring and the inner edge of the drum.
I do know clearances are pretty tight (well seem it), guess a little difference really makes it drivable or not huh ? Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
So finally got it all back together and in the truck. Filled it with tranny fluid and now my neutral goes forwards, and I have no reverse. I dropped the pan again and everything seems good, all the bolts are in their proper places.
I used a new pump with all new seals, and also replaced all the seals inside the transmission when I did the rebuild. any ideas what happened? I am guessing I have to pull it again and tear it apart......
At this point, I am thinking of just swapping in this 4l80e I have lol
I used a new pump with all new seals, and also replaced all the seals inside the transmission when I did the rebuild. any ideas what happened? I am guessing I have to pull it again and tear it apart......
At this point, I am thinking of just swapping in this 4l80e I have lol
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
First the reverse issue...
You may have over-tightened the clamps around the teflon reverse seals while "resizing it". Others have done this and found that after a day of sitting the seals opened up enough to work properly. So try it again tomorrow morning.
The "neutral goes forward" issue...
Are you testing this on the road or with the wheels up. With the wheels up, this is normal - there is enough friction between the non-applied forward clutch frictions to spin the wheels.
If this is happening on the road, the forward clutch does not have enough clearance.
FIRST - make sure your shifter is aligned with the trans. Perhaps [N] is really [OD] and [R] is really [N].
You may have over-tightened the clamps around the teflon reverse seals while "resizing it". Others have done this and found that after a day of sitting the seals opened up enough to work properly. So try it again tomorrow morning.
The "neutral goes forward" issue...
Are you testing this on the road or with the wheels up. With the wheels up, this is normal - there is enough friction between the non-applied forward clutch frictions to spin the wheels.
If this is happening on the road, the forward clutch does not have enough clearance.
FIRST - make sure your shifter is aligned with the trans. Perhaps [N] is really [OD] and [R] is really [N].
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
First the reverse issue...
You may have over-tightened the clamps around the teflon reverse seals while "resizing it". Others have done this and found that after a day of sitting the seals opened up enough to work properly. So try it again tomorrow morning.
The "neutral goes forward" issue...
Are you testing this on the road or with the wheels up. With the wheels up, this is normal - there is enough friction between the non-applied forward clutch frictions to spin the wheels.
If this is happening on the road, the forward clutch does not have enough clearance.
FIRST - make sure your shifter is aligned with the trans. Perhaps [N] is really [OD] and [R] is really [N].
You may have over-tightened the clamps around the teflon reverse seals while "resizing it". Others have done this and found that after a day of sitting the seals opened up enough to work properly. So try it again tomorrow morning.
The "neutral goes forward" issue...
Are you testing this on the road or with the wheels up. With the wheels up, this is normal - there is enough friction between the non-applied forward clutch frictions to spin the wheels.
If this is happening on the road, the forward clutch does not have enough clearance.
FIRST - make sure your shifter is aligned with the trans. Perhaps [N] is really [OD] and [R] is really [N].
Also, I used Vaseline to hold the check ***** in place, could too much Vaseline cause any of these issues?
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks. I will give it a try tomorrow sometime. I'll double check the shift linkage. This is all with the wheels on the ground. I did keep the clearances according to the instructions that came with the kit. It was an upgraded clutch kit to 8-9 clutches instead of the stock 6.
Also, I used Vaseline to hold the check ***** in place, could too much Vaseline cause any of these issues?
Also, I used Vaseline to hold the check ***** in place, could too much Vaseline cause any of these issues?
The vaseline may need to melt. Since I have time, I don't run a trans until the day after the final assembly. I also warm it up thoroughly with before testing. I also still have the rear wheels up as I needed during installation. I figure this allows all the teflon seals to seal properly and the transgel (or vaseline) to melt. I also lets me check the fluid level several times.
Fingers crossed for you.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
Hopefully it is only the shift linkage then.
The vaseline may need to melt. Since I have time, I don't run a trans until the day after the final assembly. I also warm it up thoroughly with before testing. I also still have the rear wheels up as I needed during installation. I figure this allows all the teflon seals to seal properly and the transgel (or vaseline) to melt. I also lets me check the fluid level several times.
Fingers crossed for you.
The vaseline may need to melt. Since I have time, I don't run a trans until the day after the final assembly. I also warm it up thoroughly with before testing. I also still have the rear wheels up as I needed during installation. I figure this allows all the teflon seals to seal properly and the transgel (or vaseline) to melt. I also lets me check the fluid level several times.
Fingers crossed for you.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
So I had a few minutes this morning to tinker with it. When the shifter is in reverse or neutral (with truck off), and you try to push the truck backwards it rolls a little then hits something, almost like its in forward gear still. You hear a metal clunking sound then the truck stops moving backwards, won't go any further backwards but will go forwards all day long. I am thinking possibly a valve body bolt in the wrong place ?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
Checked the valve body bolts and all those were in the correct spots so I pulled the tranny out. Got the pump out, and the reverse input drum out but the input drum is stuck. I have pulled and yanked and something is holding it in. Any suggestions on a way to pry it out ?
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Verdad Gallardo Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Sorry, I have no idea how the input drum could get stuck. The 3/4 clutch frictions should slide right off the front planetary; perhaps you mangled one friction on assembly and it is tightly jammed in.
I am curious what you are going to find.
Also sorry to hear you are having so many problems with the rebuild.
I am curious what you are going to find.
Also sorry to hear you are having so many problems with the rebuild.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
Got the input drum out. Looks like a clutch did get stuck when I assembled it originally. The teeth on the clutch disc got jammed , so only that clutch is bad. The steels were all good and the reverse input drum is fine too. Guess I got lucky. So instead of having 9 clutches I replaced it with a steel so now have 8 clutches. Clearances are still within spec so should be good. I will reassemble it tomorrow and see how it is.
I also picked up a 4l80e out of a 2002 that I will source out parts for the swap next year.
I also picked up a 4l80e out of a 2002 that I will source out parts for the swap next year.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Sounds like you got it under control.
Getting the 3/4 clutch and the reverse drum-sun shell to all mesh at the same time can be frustrating. Sometime I get it done in one minute; other times it takes so long I lose the strength in my arm to hold the heavy assembly and have to take a 15 minute break. I do try to get all the 3/4 frictions aligned and centered using to two philips screwdrivers (or anything with round shafts).
Good luck. Hopefully it works well this time.
Getting the 3/4 clutch and the reverse drum-sun shell to all mesh at the same time can be frustrating. Sometime I get it done in one minute; other times it takes so long I lose the strength in my arm to hold the heavy assembly and have to take a 15 minute break. I do try to get all the 3/4 frictions aligned and centered using to two philips screwdrivers (or anything with round shafts).
Good luck. Hopefully it works well this time.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
Sounds like you got it under control.
Getting the 3/4 clutch and the reverse drum-sun shell to all mesh at the same time can be frustrating. Sometime I get it done in one minute; other times it takes so long I lose the strength in my arm to hold the heavy assembly and have to take a 15 minute break. I do try to get all the 3/4 frictions aligned and centered using to two philips screwdrivers (or anything with round shafts).
Good luck. Hopefully it works well this time.
Getting the 3/4 clutch and the reverse drum-sun shell to all mesh at the same time can be frustrating. Sometime I get it done in one minute; other times it takes so long I lose the strength in my arm to hold the heavy assembly and have to take a 15 minute break. I do try to get all the 3/4 frictions aligned and centered using to two philips screwdrivers (or anything with round shafts).
Good luck. Hopefully it works well this time.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Yes, the output shaft turns both ways - the reverse direction is about 3 times harder than the forward direction because many more parts are moving then.
In the forward direction the low/reverse clutch freewheels, in the reverse direction it engages the sun shell and reverse drum, etc.
In the forward direction the low/reverse clutch freewheels, in the reverse direction it engages the sun shell and reverse drum, etc.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
Yes, the output shaft turns both ways - the reverse direction is about 3 times harder than the forward direction because many more parts are moving then.
In the forward direction the low/reverse clutch freewheels, in the reverse direction it engages the sun shell and reverse drum, etc.
In the forward direction the low/reverse clutch freewheels, in the reverse direction it engages the sun shell and reverse drum, etc.
I also picked up an autometer temp sensor for it, tapped my pan but I may be switching pans. I ordered what I thought was a deep pan but its real cheap and no bigger then my stock one.
the normal cause of the snap ring lugs breaking on the 3 4 pack is too much line pressure coupled with too much clearance in the pack. I usually set my 3 4 pack installed at around .020 which will break into .030 or so sonnax also makes an input drum with a bolt in pressure plate which has eliminated the snap ring failure
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
the normal cause of the snap ring lugs breaking on the 3 4 pack is too much line pressure coupled with too much clearance in the pack. I usually set my 3 4 pack installed at around .020 which will break into .030 or so sonnax also makes an input drum with a bolt in pressure plate which has eliminated the snap ring failure
I have come to the conclusion that I will be swapping in this 4L80E. Friend of mine gave it to me and I am really at a lost with this 4L60E. I followed the manual and the same problem again
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
A .040 clearance would be fine. However the stock spec is .050 to .070. When that is combined with a too-high line pressure, you get a hammering effect.
Predator is referring to the Sonnax "Smart Tech" input drum. While a nice improvement, it cost $400 plus an input shaft which can be anywhere from $150 for a stock one to $400 for a billet one.
By the time someone "needs" these expensive parts, I recommend a 4L80E unless you have a Vette or other smaller car in which a 4L80E will not easily fit.
Predator is referring to the Sonnax "Smart Tech" input drum. While a nice improvement, it cost $400 plus an input shaft which can be anywhere from $150 for a stock one to $400 for a billet one.
By the time someone "needs" these expensive parts, I recommend a 4L80E unless you have a Vette or other smaller car in which a 4L80E will not easily fit.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
A .040 clearance would be fine. However the stock spec is .050 to .070. When that is combined with a too-high line pressure, you get a hammering effect.
Predator is referring to the Sonnax "Smart Tech" input drum. While a nice improvement, it cost $400 plus an input shaft which can be anywhere from $150 for a stock one to $400 for a billet one.
By the time someone "needs" these expensive parts, I recommend a 4L80E unless you have a Vette or other smaller car in which a 4L80E will not easily fit.
Predator is referring to the Sonnax "Smart Tech" input drum. While a nice improvement, it cost $400 plus an input shaft which can be anywhere from $150 for a stock one to $400 for a billet one.
By the time someone "needs" these expensive parts, I recommend a 4L80E unless you have a Vette or other smaller car in which a 4L80E will not easily fit.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2021
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Mine blew up in my '05 Tahoe. Sounded like a 12 gauge going off. Had no forward gears, only reverse. I'm an engine guy, don't know much about autos. I mainly run sticks. Anyone have any ideas what that would be