4L80E converter locked in Over Drive
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Joined: Nov 2013
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From: Colorado Springs
4L80E converter locked in Over Drive My issue is that my jakes performance stage 3 4L80E with circle D 3200 258MM pro multi disk converter is locking the converter once it shifts into overdrive. It will up and down shift thru the gears with no issues. The tune is set to lock the converter in OD at 50 MPH and unlock at 48 MPH but it does not unlock and will bog the motor until it downshifts to 3rd. First thru third is fine. When it shifts from 3rd into D at at any speed you can hear a loud clunk of the converter locking. It started on the drive home after a day at the track. Driving to the track there were zero issues and the truck ran great at the track (6.16@119). Trans fluid is fine and never ran hotter than 190*. I know it is not a tuning issue (I have HP tuners), but I'm not sure if the issue is in the Trans or the converter. I couldn't find any others with this issue on the Internet
My set up is: 390 CI, twin 6266s, built 4L80E, circle D 3200 multi disk, ford 9"
Thanks
My set up is: 390 CI, twin 6266s, built 4L80E, circle D 3200 multi disk, ford 9"
Thanks
My issue is that my jakes performance stage 3 4L80E with circle D 3200 258MM pro multi disk converter is locking the converter once it shifts into overdrive. It will up and down shift thru the gears with no issues. The tune is set to lock the converter in OD at 50 MPH and unlock at 48 MPH but it does not unlock and will bog the motor until it downshifts to 3rd. First thru third is fine. When it shifts from 3rd into D at at any speed you can hear a loud clunk of the converter locking. It started on the drive home after a day at the track. Driving to the track there were zero issues and the truck ran great at the track (6.16@119). Trans fluid is fine and never ran hotter than 190*. I know it is not a tuning issue (I have HP tuners), but I'm not sure if the issue is in the Trans or the converter. I couldn't find any others with this issue on the Internet
My set up is: 390 CI, twin 6266s, built 4L80E, circle D 3200 multi disk, ford 9"
Thanks
My set up is: 390 CI, twin 6266s, built 4L80E, circle D 3200 multi disk, ford 9"
Thanks
You need to look at the commanded state with a scanner or tuning software. That will tell you where to start to look.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
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From: Colorado Springs
Again, drove the truck 40 miles to the track with ZERO issues. Touched nothing in the tune, then had the issue on the drive home. Commanded lock in 4th is at 50 MPH (has been verified in HP tuners), but it will lock at a lower speed once it shifts into fourth and will not unlock until it shifts out of fourth. Not a tune issue
Again, drove the truck 40 miles to the track with ZERO issues. Touched nothing in the tune, then had the issue on the drive home. Commanded lock in 4th is at 50 MPH (has been verified in HP tuners), but it will lock at a lower speed once it shifts into fourth and will not unlock until it shifts out of fourth. Not a tune issue
The transmission and converter do what they are commanded. If there was a converter or transmission issue it would most likely be locked up at all times or in 2nd through 4th.
There are multiple tables in the tune, not just one with lockup speed vs. gear.
If you have think the one table you are describing is all there is to lockup, you have a lot of learning to do.
Possibly a code is set causing lockup until you clear it.
AGAIN,
Most likely an issue in the tune.
Look at the commanded state and THEN you will have a place to start looking for the issue.
You should trust the guy who built your transmission...
If you don't look at the commanded state, you don't have adequate data to say it's not in the tune.
The transmission and converter do what they are commanded. If there was a converter or transmission issue it would most likely be locked up at all times or in 2nd through 4th.
There are multiple tables in the tune, not just one with lockup speed vs. gear.
If you have think the one table you are describing is all there is to lockup, you have a lot of learning to do.
Possibly a code is set causing lockup until you clear it.
AGAIN,
Most likely an issue in the tune.
Look at the commanded state and THEN you will have a place to start looking for the issue.
You should trust the guy who built your transmission...
The transmission and converter do what they are commanded. If there was a converter or transmission issue it would most likely be locked up at all times or in 2nd through 4th.
There are multiple tables in the tune, not just one with lockup speed vs. gear.
If you have think the one table you are describing is all there is to lockup, you have a lot of learning to do.
Possibly a code is set causing lockup until you clear it.
AGAIN,
Most likely an issue in the tune.
Look at the commanded state and THEN you will have a place to start looking for the issue.
You should trust the guy who built your transmission...
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 1
From: Colorado Springs
Well drove the truck today, with no issues. It drove as it always has (I did not data log the drive)......Got the truck up to the same eng and tras temps as when I drove home the other day. The Normal, Cruise, Hot and Performance tables in the tune are all set the same. They are not a flat 50MPH and 48MPH, but here are the 4th gear cells of the throttle position % in the AUTO TCC APPLY/RELEASE tables. If there is another table that commands Converter Lock up please point me in the right direction, I would be glad to check it out.
4th APPLY: 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 60.0 71.0 87.0 94.0 94.0 105.0 115.0 124.0 130.0 133.0 255.0 255.0 255.0
4th Release: 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 55.0 62.0 69.0 78.0 88.0 98.0 254.0 254.0 254.0
1-3 gears are not commanded to lock. they are all set to 255 apply/254 release
I have 3,100 miles on the build and approx 30 pulls at the track on this AUTO TCC APPLY/Release tune setting. Enough seat time to know when something was not operating correctly. What else could have potentially caused the issue in the trans or converter? If it does act up again I will be sure and data log the commanded state.
Thanks!
4th APPLY: 50.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 60.0 71.0 87.0 94.0 94.0 105.0 115.0 124.0 130.0 133.0 255.0 255.0 255.0
4th Release: 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 48.0 50.0 50.0 50.0 55.0 62.0 69.0 78.0 88.0 98.0 254.0 254.0 254.0
1-3 gears are not commanded to lock. they are all set to 255 apply/254 release
I have 3,100 miles on the build and approx 30 pulls at the track on this AUTO TCC APPLY/Release tune setting. Enough seat time to know when something was not operating correctly. What else could have potentially caused the issue in the trans or converter? If it does act up again I will be sure and data log the commanded state.
Thanks!
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Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
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From: Colorado Springs
The trans Overtemp is set to 267*, but I never saw more than 190* on my Aeroforce Gauge that was reading off of the OBD II port.
I would just like to know what could have potentially caused this issue. If it was in my tune somewhere I would like to be pointed to that table so I can adjust it so this does not happen again...
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One strategy would be to disable lockup at all points in all gears by unhooking the wires to the TCC, then go for a drive. If the converter still locks, you have eliminated the tuning possibility.
The goal is to isolate and eliminate until you can determine the problem.
Understanding the operating principles of the individual components also helps.
The transmission is capable in normal situations of locking the converter in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.
If there were a mechanical issue causing the converter to lockup, it would most likely do so in 2-4th or at all times.
To only be locked in OD, tells me that the converter is capable of unlocking, so it's not an internal converter issue.
It's unlocking in 2nd and 3rd, so it's not likely a transmission valve body, solenoid, or pump lockup valve issue.
That leaves something commanding it to be on in OD at all times. OEM tuning defaults to this in the case of overheat within a certain temperature.
I would check for codes.
Treat it like a vehicle at shop for driveability issue. The diagnostic procedure is the same.
Isolate and eliminate.
I think you should move the speeds 48 and 50 farther apart. There is not much room between those two numbers, that a fluctuating speed sensor, even with cruise control, could not bounce between quickly. You could be sending the signal to lock and unlock the converter rapidly while moving at those speeds, and wearing out an electronic or hydraulic component. This could be the stem of the issue, Something is getting sick of being commanded to lock, then unlock, rapidly, at 48-49mph, due to those set speeds being so close together. A data sample often contains noise and the difference between 48 and 49 is not so much when you are actually traveling 48 mph with your foot on the pedal.
Next I want to know: what happens if you are moving 55mph at 6% throttle position, and move the throttle position to say 50% where the cell says 94mph. Does that mean the converter would unlock until you reach 94mph and then lock again? That is my intuitive answer but I want to make sure.
Last, as a diagnostic approach I would vary the unlock values and verify the computer is responding. i.e. change 48 to 55 and move the locked value to 60mph. Then verify the converter actually does what it is commanded to do. Make adjustments similar to this to verify each setting is doing as commanded, you might stumble upon a setting that does not seem to do what it should, and that could lead you to an answer.
Next I want to know: what happens if you are moving 55mph at 6% throttle position, and move the throttle position to say 50% where the cell says 94mph. Does that mean the converter would unlock until you reach 94mph and then lock again? That is my intuitive answer but I want to make sure.
Last, as a diagnostic approach I would vary the unlock values and verify the computer is responding. i.e. change 48 to 55 and move the locked value to 60mph. Then verify the converter actually does what it is commanded to do. Make adjustments similar to this to verify each setting is doing as commanded, you might stumble upon a setting that does not seem to do what it should, and that could lead you to an answer.
I agree that those values seem too close.
However I wouldn't start doing wholesale tuning changes until I had done some basic diagnosis of the complaint.
I try to provide a transmission and stay out of the tuning aspect on the customer's end. We do our part and the tuner gets paid to do theirs.
However sometimes the guy who operates the tuning software has a flawed or just doesn't have an understanding of the operation, so the tuning ends up being less than optimal or even causes failure.
If this were an OEM vehicle and were taken to a dealership or qualified repair tech, they would first check it for codes, look at the live data stream for normal sensor readings, and then use the two way scanner function to command on/off the lockup. Any good performance shop would do the same.
The difference is that we know the tuning has been altered and we can assume that it has an error, where a factory vehicle that's not as common of an issue.
There's a logical sequence to diagnose it. That has to be followed or you can chase your tail forever.
Another aspect I've seen is that sometimes the segment swap doesn't seem to be complete in the software, so we've seen some odd issues when segment swaps are done using HPTuners.
You can move the enable temp up on the P1870 code and eliminate many odd issues as well...
However I wouldn't start doing wholesale tuning changes until I had done some basic diagnosis of the complaint.
I try to provide a transmission and stay out of the tuning aspect on the customer's end. We do our part and the tuner gets paid to do theirs.
However sometimes the guy who operates the tuning software has a flawed or just doesn't have an understanding of the operation, so the tuning ends up being less than optimal or even causes failure.
If this were an OEM vehicle and were taken to a dealership or qualified repair tech, they would first check it for codes, look at the live data stream for normal sensor readings, and then use the two way scanner function to command on/off the lockup. Any good performance shop would do the same.
The difference is that we know the tuning has been altered and we can assume that it has an error, where a factory vehicle that's not as common of an issue.
There's a logical sequence to diagnose it. That has to be followed or you can chase your tail forever.
Another aspect I've seen is that sometimes the segment swap doesn't seem to be complete in the software, so we've seen some odd issues when segment swaps are done using HPTuners.
You can move the enable temp up on the P1870 code and eliminate many odd issues as well...
It could be the line to lube valve in the pump, another member on here was having an issue with a4l80 and a converter getting stuck in lockup. 75 dollar upgrade part and only have to drop the pan to replace it. Sonnex makes the part I believe. It comes with pressure relief holes drilled in it
It could be the line to lube valve in the pump, another member on here was having an issue with a4l80 and a converter getting stuck in lockup. 75 dollar upgrade part and only have to drop the pan to replace it. Sonnex makes the part I believe. It comes with pressure relief holes drilled in it
Next I want to know: what happens if you are moving 55mph at 6% throttle position, and move the throttle position to say 50% where the cell says 94mph. Does that mean the converter would unlock until you reach 94mph and then lock again? That is my intuitive answer but I want to make sure.
.