Stall too small?
Stall too small? I am currently running a 228r cam with a yank 3000 stall. One of my lifters let go and ate up my cam. I figured that now would be a good time to up my cam a bit into the 23x/23x range. If I was to keep the 3000 stall in, what would my driveability be like?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Driveability will be good but you'll be missing the performance potential offered by a (physically) smaller, lighter and higher stalling converter. Your new cam is going to push your powerband even higher into the rpm range. You'll want a converter that will slip up into that range faster for optimal performance.
Like I said, I believe your current converter will drive fine, but you'll be leaving a lot on the table that could be had with 3600-4000 stall.
Like I said, I believe your current converter will drive fine, but you'll be leaving a lot on the table that could be had with 3600-4000 stall.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,629
Likes: 2,549
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Driveability will be good but you'll be missing the performance potential offered by a (physically) smaller, lighter and higher stalling converter. Your new cam is going to push your powerband even higher into the rpm range. You'll want a converter that will slip up into that range faster for optimal performance.
Like I said, I believe your current converter will drive fine, but you'll be leaving a lot on the table that could be had with 3600-4000 stall.
Like I said, I believe your current converter will drive fine, but you'll be leaving a lot on the table that could be had with 3600-4000 stall.
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You have very little to gain performance wise without increasing the converter. IMO replace the cam so you don't have to retune and enjoy.
Increasing the cam size without increasing the already nearly too small converter has more chance of negative drivability or performance.
You might gain 10hp in the top end if you're lucky. More likely it would be less than that.
Increasing the cam size without increasing the already nearly too small converter has more chance of negative drivability or performance.
You might gain 10hp in the top end if you're lucky. More likely it would be less than that.
I ran a similar cam to what you're planning on running 232/238 and had a 3200 stall with a 3.73 in the rear (see sig). drivability was decent but like other mentioned I left a lot on the table running a low stall. before I sold it was planning on getting it re-stalled with a 3600. with the stall at 3600 it would be right in the middle between DD and track. my next build i'll be going with a 3600 stall as I should had from the get-go.
If your spending the money on new parts, i would definitelty opt for a bigger stall and cam.
i would honestly step up to a 4000 stall and that 232/234 cam. Easily, easily daily driver setup man.
my old setup was a 230 cam, and 3200 stall. Drove great.
sold that car, and the setup i run now is TSP 233/239 and circle D 5c 4000 converter. It drives just as smooth as my old setup.
This is about as aggressive as i would go.. car is just a daily driver street car.
i would honestly step up to a 4000 stall and that 232/234 cam. Easily, easily daily driver setup man.
my old setup was a 230 cam, and 3200 stall. Drove great.
sold that car, and the setup i run now is TSP 233/239 and circle D 5c 4000 converter. It drives just as smooth as my old setup.
This is about as aggressive as i would go.. car is just a daily driver street car.
I drove my car to work 40 mins in traffic. Had a 234/242 111 and a loose 4000 (looser than that 5C) with just 323s.
Wouldn't recommend that. Not with a wake the dead exhaust combo.
However, when I swapped to a 227/244 115 and 373s with the same stall... car was immensely more enjoyable on the street. It did give up some top end performance.
So I would recommend, throwing more gear at the car, going to a 4C from CircleD (3600) and then going with a different cam. I think a 230/234 114+2 would be a good cam. I had that one for a while too. PatG spec'd it with EPS lobes and Cam Motion cut it. I'd recommend that as a slight step up without killing drivability.
Wouldn't recommend that. Not with a wake the dead exhaust combo.
However, when I swapped to a 227/244 115 and 373s with the same stall... car was immensely more enjoyable on the street. It did give up some top end performance.
So I would recommend, throwing more gear at the car, going to a 4C from CircleD (3600) and then going with a different cam. I think a 230/234 114+2 would be a good cam. I had that one for a while too. PatG spec'd it with EPS lobes and Cam Motion cut it. I'd recommend that as a slight step up without killing drivability.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,629
Likes: 2,549
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I wouldn't worry about a gear swap at this point. OP stated he already has 3.42s so a swap to 3.73 isn't worth the cost and hassle IMO, unless he's planning a new rear anyway.
Better to address that inadequate stall speed first. Bump it to 3600-4000, make sure to go with a high quality unit for best driveability, and you'll reap excellent performance gains with no appreciable loss of driveability if sticking with a cam that's close to previous specs.
Better to address that inadequate stall speed first. Bump it to 3600-4000, make sure to go with a high quality unit for best driveability, and you'll reap excellent performance gains with no appreciable loss of driveability if sticking with a cam that's close to previous specs.
Missed where he said 3.42s. Looked in his sig. Assumed 2.73s or 3.23s.
3.42s and an SS3600 or 4C would be a good combo with a cam similar to what I said.
Or you could do it 230/234 112+2 and it'd be a little more rowdy but still enjoyable.
3.42s and an SS3600 or 4C would be a good combo with a cam similar to what I said.
Or you could do it 230/234 112+2 and it'd be a little more rowdy but still enjoyable.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
3.23's are good to go IMO. There's no perceptible difference between them and 3.42's and even going to 3.73's isn't going to get you much.
And that rear just may surprise you with how long it lasts ...
And that rear just may surprise you with how long it lasts ...
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,629
Likes: 2,549
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Agreed again.To the OP, although I agree with RevGTO about the fact that your stock rear might surprise you with its longevity, I personally wouldn't recommend spending money on a gear swap if you're planning on a new rear regardless.
I just put money in the 10-bolt. If setup right, there's no reason it won't last behind an automatic. I've had mine behind a heads/cam car and drag radials for 3 years. And it has 146k miles on it. But new ring and pinion this year with ARP cap studs and a TA girdle. Little things to help.
Also, doing a looser stall with a lower STR will not hit the tires as hard. My 4000 has a 2.2 STR and is softer which is good for bracket racing or street digs. It still hits them hard as hell. But not as hard as a 2.7 or 2.8 STR would. And that helps soften the blow to the rearend too.
Also, doing a looser stall with a lower STR will not hit the tires as hard. My 4000 has a 2.2 STR and is softer which is good for bracket racing or street digs. It still hits them hard as hell. But not as hard as a 2.7 or 2.8 STR would. And that helps soften the blow to the rearend too.