oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Yea I'll let you know. I'm thinking while I have the pan off, I might put a new seperator plate in with 1-2 drilled to .120" and then just removing the 3rd checkball. Not sure yet though

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Can someone with HPtuners do me a favor


Can you log the 1-2 solenoid A, 2-3 solenoid B, and current gear for me. I think HPT has the pids backwards where 1-2 is really 2-3 and vise versa. I know the 80e works like the following:

1-2 On - First Gear
Both Off - Second Gear
2-3 On - Third Gear
1-2/2-3 On - Overdrive

Can some one with a working 80e verify thats how theirs functions in the scanner?

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

So the last couple of days I dropped the pan and swapped the A and B solenoids and the pressure switch. That is what someone at Jakes place told me to do. It didn't fix anything at all. Here is what has me stumped... Now I realized that HP tuners has the solenoids swapped in the scanner so I will just tell you what is really going on.

The computer is commanding everything as it should. But if I turn the 1-2 solenoid off from a stop, first gear engages as it should. Then if I turn the OFF override off anytime before overdrive, it will command the 1-2 solenoid and 3-4 solenoid on and shift into overdrive like it should.. So first gear is the only on that is opposite. 1-2 has to be off in order for it to engage first gear... What the F is going on? What did I install backwards?

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Here is what I found when I pulled the valve body.. 2nd gear checkball was embedded in the separator plate. So tonight I will install a new plate and see if that was the issue. I tore the 1-2 valve out to make sure that wasn't backwards but I had it correct. You can only install the valve one way. So hopefully that checkball was doing weird things for fluid flow in first gear...

wht/73

That can't be good!

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

I'm hoping that is the culprit!

clinebarger

I'm not convinced a stuck 2nd clutch checkball would cause you symptoms, It may cause a slow/er release of the 2nd clutch with a stock sized 2nd feed orifice.....But it looks like yours is pretty large (+ .100") which would be plenty when slowly coming to a stop.

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

THIS!

I read through some flow charts yesterday before going home and came to the conclusion that had nothing to do with my 1st gear issue. Like you said, all that check ball would do is exactly what it is made for and limit flow to the 2nd circuit. With that in mind, I'm convinced it has to be the low roller clutch... Since the truck has 2nd, 3rd, and overdrive, that tells me the forward clutches are engaging like they should. If first gear is only the forward clutches and the low roller holding, it has to be something with the low roller.. Must not be doing its job. I don't know if I installed it upside down or wrong in any way so I decided to stop messing around and pull the trans...

Last night I got everything unbolted and ready to drop the trans so if I don't have time to do it tonight, it should be out tomorrow.

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Just found the below thread... Sound familiar??

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...unplugged.html

clinebarger

I didn't read the thread, But I do have a good grasp on how this trans works...Though I have never installed the Lo-Roller Clutch in upside down or tried to for that matter.

Around 1995, Legs were added to the Lo-Roller Clutch on 4L80E's & the Reaction Carrier was deepened....If you could install it upside down.....The Roller Clutch "could" miss the Center Support entirely I guess.
I can try to install a TH400 style Roller Clutch upside down a work tomorrow & get back to you?

I don't see how you got 1st gear to "engage" while fiddling with the Solenoid State if the Lo-Roller isn't holding? You could put it in Manual Low & bring on the Lo/Reverse Band & bypass the Lo-Roller Clutch altogether.....Did you try that?

What gear does it start off in without the solenoid state change?

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

I have the early model core between 93-96. So my low roller clutch doesn't have the legs. After the tear down last night, I don't think you can install it upside down. Looks the same either way. As far as first, I thought when I turned the 1-2 off, it was engaging into first when I think it was really second like it should. I thought the converter was just a bit loose since I've never driven with it until now. The computer showed the current gear as first but it had to be second. I left it in manual second with the 1-2 off and ran up the road and never felt it shift into second so I figured it had to already be in second. Thats why I just said F it and tear into it. I tried manual first and it free revved like it did in drive..




Well I'm assuming I found it.. The low roller clutch looked good. I don't think you can install it upside down in the early model cores. And all the rollers were in place.. So I scratched my head for a quick second and this came to me..:


And this...



So here is what it looked like when I pulled the reaction carrier. I noticed the low roller clutch was sitting pretty deep in the grooves. Keep in mind I don't have anything that has shown me it needed to sit higher, it just looked funny now that I figured the low roller was giving me my first gear issues.. So it popped in my head that I have been trying to figure out WTF that spacer ring was for.. Slipped right in to the reaction carrier and with the low roller installed on top of that, it sits right in the middle of the grooves.. So I'm pretty confident that was the issue. I have the early model core so this roller doesn't have the feet on the bottom of it. So that spacer must have to be in place to keep the low roller clutch from sitting too low in the bore and missing the center support..?

wht/73

I'm "assuming" that is a sprag and is in backwards?
The steps should be facing the same direction?

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Yea I think you are right. So with the spacer in and roller clutch flipped, that should be correct? Can anyone confirm?

squarles67

Yes, I believe that is correct. Below is a pic from the ATRA book

wht/73

I think I now see if beat on in od the edges will get rolled over.
In D3 and lower, clutches help hold.

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Now that is money! Thank you so much

clinebarger

You obviously can install it upside down.....Because you have it installed upside down in your picture.

The springs force the rollers Up the Ramp, Not Down the Ramp, That is how I keep it straight in my head anyway.

clinebarger

That's the Lo Roller Clutch, It's actually a very stout piece, Your thinking of the Overdrive Roller Clutch.

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Yes I realized that today after the first picture was posted. I have the low roller flipped over, with the spacer underneath and installed back in the trans.

I have all the internals installed. Just need to bolt up the valvebody and I'll be good to install tomorrow/saturday. Can't wait to drive it.

Thanks everyone for your help!

oakley6575

iTrader: (3)

Woke up in the middle of the night on Thursday and realized I didn't torque the valve body down before putting the pan on so Friday when I got home from work, I pulled the pan, tightened the vb up and got the trans back in the truck. Took me a good bit but I got it driving that night. Everything works perfectly. 1st gear feels great, but damn it really shifts firm into second. I'm playing with the shift pressures now to try and lighten it up at part throttle. 0.110" was too much to drill the 2nd feed IMO. It feels really good at WOT but its way to harsh for daily driving. 2-3 and 3-4 feel awesome.

Thanks for the help everyone! Sure feels good to build something yourself and it come out better than expected (the second try )....