Okay looking for advice, here is whats going on. I am looking to buy a new upgraded trans soon. I talked to Allen at PB and Adam at FLT who were both very helpful in answering my questions. Obviously this is a large investment and I want to get it right. Adam wants to get me into a FLT level 4 with an optional Sonnax Input drum upgrade. He told me if I need edto be more wallet friendly, he has an alternative which was an additional 95 dollars. Im spacing what it was but I do remember he gave me a second best option. Allan wants to build me a Level 2 unit and explained to me that although the Sonnax Drum is great, is not needed for my application. He told me the 3/4 burn up problem has been mostly solved because they sort of reinvented how the system works, they run the clearances much tighter, (I believe he said .020" but don't quote me) which doesn't give the clutches the chance to slip. The Sonnax drum has a billet plate that prevents the clutches from flexing/coning but he told me this shouldn't be a problem in my application. He told me he doesn't want to sell me parts he doesn't think I need but if I want, we can always option it in no problem. He will build it anyway I want it. Allan explained to me that the shell being used in the level 2, THE BEAST, is comparable in strength to a Sonnax shell, although it is heavier and not balanced. The Sonnax shell is a lighter unit and alleviates a potential vibration issue, which he has found is not a common problem therefore isn’t a necessity. To upgrade this part is around 50ish bucks.

Both claim their systems should handle a 400rwhp street car that may see a 150 wet shot at the strip. Yes I plan on spraying in 2nd and it will be progressive. I like to be as gentle as possible.

Both these guys really seem to know their stuff and are confident in their product. Neither one tried to sell me an over the top setup and educated me on how things work. Basically the difference here is builder philosophy. PB reuses my Tail and Bell and have free shipping. I did not ask Adam at FLT if shipping was free but the site does not state it to my knowledge. FLT will require my Core which would be an additional shipping charge. PB offers a superior warranty and a 995 refresh fee after warranty.

I am on the fence about who to go with, both seem like straight shooting, honest people. Help me make my decision.

http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...Stripe4L60.htm
http://www.performabuilt.com/level-2.html

 

I've tuned a car with a performabuilt trans before and liked it. No experience with FLT. Personally, I'm just not a fan of the 60e at all and usually IMMEDIATELY ditch it in favor of a better trans.

 

Both shops told me that the 60E is a great platform to build off of. I was told nowadays with modern parts and innovations, these units can be made to handle a lot of power. I asked them both about the 80E and the 400. The 80E has more parasitic losses and is heavier, as well as requiring a BFH mod which I have done well to avoid. The 400 is a proven unit obviously, but with most commutes being freeway, loosing overdrive wouldn’t be desirable. I was told I could go any route I want, but the 60E is more than enough, and I avoid having to hammer the tunnel and change out the DS, crossmember, flexplate and converter.

 

not a knock on FLT, but I always recommend Performabuilt just based on my experience. Excellent to talk to and work with, seemed like a straight shooting company as well. No issues with the trans, solid warranty, no core, UPS delivered. Even the instructions were good, they give you an excellent walkthrough.

I don't doubt that a PROPERLY built 60 can handle all sorts of ****. My factory unit lasted over 300K miles on a lifted truck that got put to some real work. How long is the Performabuilt gonna last, lol.

 

The simple fact that they told you the 4l60e is a great platform to build off of, is enough to instantly disqualify whoever it was that fed that to you.

 

Why would you say that?

 

Nothing wrong with a well built 4L60E. A local friend of mine has an FLT (level 7 I think?) 4L65E in his '01 WS6 turbo making 1000hp (SPRAYED 01 on this site). Trans has held up well, but was not cheap. Anyone who tells you that a 4L60E must be dumped for a ~400rwhp F-body to remain reliable is not someone who's advice I would further solicit.

Having said that, I have personal experience with the FLT product and nothing but good things to say regarding it. I'm sure some of the other sponsors build a great product as well.

 

Because there are far too many known issues and weaknesses for it to be "a great platform to build off of". Sure, you can spend an insane amount of money to make just about anything live, but as far as it being a good platform.... no it's not. You won't find a soul that has gone out seeking the 4l60e to replace their 4l80 or Th400, the reason for that is.....THOSE are great platforms to build off of, not the 60e. The sheer amount of threads here in this section alone should be an indication that.

 

The 400 will loose overdrive which isn't ideal for a daily commuter and freeway driving. Sure it can be done but why bother? A 400 built well will cost 1800 plus crossmember, flexplate, converter and driveshaft. An 80e will require a BFH and some people don't want to beat on a nice fbody. That being said it takes about 2k to make a 60e work with a 550whp f body and it is a direct replacement. The decision is completely situational.

 

I agree completely. Also if I understand correctly, on a 4l60e to 4l80e swap on 98 car's you have to do a pcm swap also.

A 4l60e will hold 400 rwhp no problem

 

2 relays and a couple of tune settings will allow you to run a 4L80e on a 98 PCM.

 

I get that but I really dont want to beat on the car. It's too nice.

 

Maybe there's something I'm missing. Why would you have to beat/ hack to death the car to run an 80e? 80e MIGHT be a touch bigger than the 400, bit I didn't need a hammer for any part of the install.

 

I had to hammer the floor on a trans am to get the trans connector on, only because I didn't plan ahead enough to plug it in before lifting the trans into place. I don't remember hammering anywhere else.

 

Very happy with my performabuilt tranny's and the customer service.

 

FLT and Performabuilt both told me, when I asked about the 80E, that it is not necessary for my application. I was told by one of them (dont remember which) that I would have to beat the tunnel to get it to fit. Not to mention the parts needed for the swap (I already bought a crossmember for the 60E when I got the TA, I bought a DS when I upgraded to a 9" rear and I dont feel like replacing the Flexplate) They both assured me the old issues for the 60E has been resolved and it is much better today than it was 10 years ago. They can be built to last in 800whp cars with a TB and slicks and still offer a warranty. They wouldnt want the bad publicity on these forums from making a poor product and false advertising. That is their words, not mine.

I understand in stock form the 60E is weak and after a bad experience with the 10 bolt I was cautious and even insisted a little with getting a different trans. They both assured me it is not worth it for what I am doing.

 

I agree with all parties. The 80e is far stronger and has much more capability for hp...we all know this. You sometimes have to clearance and sometimes not. Either way, its the underside of the car in the tunnel You're not going to ruin even a show quality car by doing that.

At the same time, the 60e is perfectly capable of your goals and will be much much easier to install. Unbolt one, slam the other in. No muss, no fuss, no changed parts. Just a simple bolt in.

I think that with the upgrades and more in depth understanding of the 60e that has developed over the last 15 years that it is a good platform to build off up...up to a point.

Up to about 600hp it will be cheaper to build a 60 than an 80 for an f body. 550hp in an f body is more than alot of guys would even know what to do with other than roast tires and sit in a sonic parking lot and listen to their cam lope.

 

I agree with this also. There are a lot of aftermarket things available that are cheap and easy to install for anyone remotely mechanically inclined let alone the upgrades you can do once you get deep into transmission for the more experienced.

I have done a few things to mine in the past on previous rebuild and am going a little further on this rebuild (as you know MaroonMonsterLs1 from my rebuild thread and thanks for the help by the way) to seal up hydraulic issues.

I have had issues in the past with mine that I chalk up to small percentage issues (cracked forward piston, snap ring/ input drum failure) but I have NEVER had my 3-4 clutch pack smoked and always show small normal ware. I attribute that to mods and better understanding of the hydraulic (not that I completely understand them myself lol)

 

I've done it two ways, both in higher (than stock) power applications:

1. Stock with some basic upgrades: https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ce-needed.html

or

2. No expense spared (because doing it a second time was a huge disappointment): https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...uild-tbss.html

The fact that a $1000 refresh came up in conversation does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling - if it is built, installed, and tuned properly you shouldn't need it at your power levels. However, you are abusing the car so it is worth knowing. That said, you are better off taking that money and putting it into better parts now vs. refreshing AND upgrading later because the horsepower bug bit you.

The guts from our RPM Level V 4L70E are sitting in box collecting dust, and the 4L60E from the wagon is out being replaced with a 4L80E. So, in short, get the best transmission you can now.

 

Then any mildly built 60e will suit your needs. No need for an 80e swap in a cruiser that you're not racing or beating on. I personally have an FLT trans and have been very happy with it. I am considering sending it back later this year for a refresh.