Kfxguy

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MaroonMonsterLS1

Throw your cooler away and get a new one. If you're using the cooler in the rad...same thing

If the metal made it all the way to the rear of the case and INSIDE the rev input drum. It made it to the cooler.
The $80 for a new cooler isn't worth the gamble of getting metal inside the trans again.
Sure, you might get lucky and not have any issues...but coolers are cheap and with how much you already have in this thing...I'd protect it

Kfxguy

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PBA

You don't have to throw away the coolers. Add a large full flow filter (spin on type) to the return (top) line going back to the transmission. Make sure the where the filter attaches to the filter housing does not have a bypass in it. If it does have a bypass, block it off, so all the oil has to go through the filter. I have recommended this many times over the years, without any problems. It also stops any future problems of any metal getting in the oil, just in case something similar like this happens again. This is cheaper, less labor, and can prevent future problems of contaminating the oil.

MaroonMonsterLS1

@PBA do you have a recommendation for a specific filter? Every filter i've seen/tested this with builds some pretty decent back pressure in the cooler/lube circuit.

mrvedit

Just to add to the original question, I have the pre-Sonnax 6-pinion 2.84 close ratio front pinion. Probably from the same manufacturer as what PATC was selling.
Personally I like the ratios and especially the closer 1->2 ratio while driving on the street.
However, I was not able to verify any improvement at the drag strip, partly because I was changing other things at the same time.
So, yes it is nice,but probably not worth the price.

PBA

I am not aware of this. The filter I am talking about is a large spin on type filter that would be used on a motor. I have had no negative feedback when I recommended doing this, and no one has let me know they had any issues because of this. I will look into it....

MaroonMonsterLS1

I have used spin on type filters with no relief valve. I also have had no negative feedback...but I have monitored the cooler charge pressure and it definitely goes up with the addition of a spin on filter.
I think for a 60e nobody will ever complain. They typically don't have thrust issues and converter restriction/stall characteristics aren't as big of talking point as a glide/th400/80e.

Kfxguy

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sjsingle1

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I researched into filters and noticed WIX does list applications for hydraulic fluid ....but what micron rating you should look for i have no clue......i think a lower rating would be more restrictive ? or being tranny oil has less viscosity than motor oil is that a issue ?
either way i would use a filter mag on the filter
the carrier changes ratios....ya either like it or ya dont.....my .02

MaroonMonsterLS1

Look at the way the planet system functions. The front planet isn't going to change the overdrive ratio.
you'd need to change the rear planet to change the overdrive ratio

It's hard to explain that in text...especially without using a diagram...but the front planet is only going to change 1st and 2nd gear ratios

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

I know, but I wonder why they were saying that it changes. Weird. I guess I know the answer. patc.

drb930

Really good info here!

john kilgore

to me the issue is the od and 2.84 is less load on the od

mrvedit

Not sure what you mean by "od" - as mentioned it does not change the Over-Drive ratio.
If you mean less load on the trans output shaft, yes that is true, but a 10% decrease isn't huge. If you are concerned, a billet output shaft is highly recommended.

kendallkmw

I hate to revive an old thread but do so to ask one question. I recently had a builder steal my Sonnax Smart Housing and bought a 4L79 with Sonnax hardened shaft and wondered about the frictions and steals. Mason is great guy to work with btw and would recommend him to anyone. I was wondering what the frictions and steels were and saw you mention TH350. Do you know if those are what is coming in the 4L79 or just what you put in a rebuild? I’d pm you but don’t have the ability to yet. Thanks.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

the frictions and steels in the 4l79 drum are custom made for mason.

MaroonMonsterLS1

The 4l79 drum has gone through a couple changes over the years.
They were first made with th350 frictions. To fit these, they would machine the hub to fit the th350 friction splines.
When that became too laborious, they had custom frictions made. By Exedy I believe.
They retain the 4l60e inner spline, and then have the th350 dimensions for the rest of the friction.

The steel plates have always been custom with a larger OD to make use of the larger friction paper surface area

The frictions have just shy of 20% more surface area per clutch than a 4l60e friction. when you lay one on top of the other it may not seem like 20% but when all of the additional paper is on the OD of the friction, the differences add up quickly

That said, if you do a tq calculation, the additional surface only *should* account for about 2.5% additional tq capacity.
It's my belief that the additional friction surface is doing more benefits outside of pure tq load ability.
A. you get a huge increase in heat dissipation which we all know is a struggle with any shifting clutch, but even moreso on a 4l60e 3/4 clutch
B. the extra paper reduces the "pressure" seen by the friction. You get the same apply force from the piston, but now spread out of 20% more face. I feel 4l60e frictions undergo significant compression of the paper media. This is a very deep rabbit hole but each paper type friction has a sweet spot of pressure they "like" to operate in. Exceeding that range doesn't always do as much benefit as we may have previously thought.
C. Knowing that we have more tq capacity and benefits A and B, I feel we can open the clearance up a little bit in the 3/4 clutch and still maintain quality shift timing. When you open up the clearance, you get less heat "checking" from drag. Most people don't know the massive amount of heat the clutches see when not applied and just dealing with drag.


Now, a little more detail on the OP's question since it got answered but never really in much detail. I've posted this before in other threads but I'll post it again here

2nd gear is still just giving 1st gear an effective overdrive with a ratio of .7
the 60e is really a 2 speed trans with OD that gets applied twice
1=Low
2=Low OD
3=High
4=High OD

Here's the math for 2nd gear:
3.06-1=2.06X.30=.63+1=1.63
2.84-1=1.84X.30=.55+1=1.55

you can see the math to get there is the same. You're affecting low gear by the exact same OD ratio you were before. 0.70
If you do the math where you just take 2nd and 1st and compare them...it looks like a tighter ratio split...just barely
1.63/3.06=0.533
1.55/2.84=0.545

but in practice...it's still just low gear + OD

The ACTUAL "close ratio" bit comes when you make the 2-3 shift. Not the 1-2 shift.
4th gear stays the same...because it's just high gear with a .7 overdrive.
So 4th is always .7 with either planet setup.

IMO the sonnax gearset is a nice piece
If you really struggle so hard with the Starting line ratio that you need a new 1st gear ratio, this may be for you. But I've never personally seen back to back track testing where the 2.84 outperformed the 3.06...and that's mostly because I assume there are not enough serious race cars trying to take advantage of every bit of ratio that are still running a 4l60e...so the application that might actually benefit from a ratio change...is likely already running a different transmission entirely.
If you had a max effort deal still running a 4l60e...there is probably room for this to show it's worth