Another 4L80E Build
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 5
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Another 4L80E Build I am looking to build a pretty stout trans, I have built a few, but haven't went this in depth with the hard parts till now.
Let me know what you think, I really chose brands that are reputable with cost in mind as well as function. 1500fwh
Is there any machining to be done out of the box to get any of these brands to work together?
All New Solenoids - AC-Delco
New Harness
Ck performance MASTER SHIFT RE-CALIBRATION AND ASSEMBLY UPGRADE KIT (Didn't want to go HD2) ((Any drawbacks to this kit?))
Ck Performance SUPER COMP DIRECT DRUM WITH 36 ELEMENT SPRAG
Ck Performance TEFLON COATED PUMP GEARSET
Ck Performance Super Comp Input Shaft
Sonnax Extreme Duty Forward Clutch Hub Kit
Sonnax Heavy Duty Main Shaft
Borg Frictions
New Steels
bushings, gaskets and seals etc.
2002 4l80E
Let me know what you think, I really chose brands that are reputable with cost in mind as well as function. 1500fwh
Is there any machining to be done out of the box to get any of these brands to work together?
All New Solenoids - AC-Delco
New Harness
Ck performance MASTER SHIFT RE-CALIBRATION AND ASSEMBLY UPGRADE KIT (Didn't want to go HD2) ((Any drawbacks to this kit?))
Ck Performance SUPER COMP DIRECT DRUM WITH 36 ELEMENT SPRAG
Ck Performance TEFLON COATED PUMP GEARSET
Ck Performance Super Comp Input Shaft
Sonnax Extreme Duty Forward Clutch Hub Kit
Sonnax Heavy Duty Main Shaft
Borg Frictions
New Steels
bushings, gaskets and seals etc.
2002 4l80E
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
Just a few things off of the top of my head...
Chris' 36 element sprag usually requires stock dimension intermediate clutches and not the usual ford clutches used with a 36 element sprag.
The outer race he machines usually had the stock 4L80E OD and grooves.
Also on the 99 and up year units... Chris' instructions for hydraulics may require and early 4L80E hollow main-shaft not a solid one.
I would double check these things with him or Michelle.
Chris' 36 element sprag usually requires stock dimension intermediate clutches and not the usual ford clutches used with a 36 element sprag.
The outer race he machines usually had the stock 4L80E OD and grooves.
Also on the 99 and up year units... Chris' instructions for hydraulics may require and early 4L80E hollow main-shaft not a solid one.
I would double check these things with him or Michelle.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
For a genuine 1500 fwhp...I'd personally be looking into an aluminum drum with steel sleeve for the sealing ring surface.
Also, with that much poer...it surprises me that you don't want/need a transbrake
Rollerize the output, and make sure you get endplay specs dialed in
Also, with that much poer...it surprises me that you don't want/need a transbrake
Rollerize the output, and make sure you get endplay specs dialed in
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Chris' 36 element sprag usually requires stock dimension intermediate clutches and not the usual ford clutches used with a 36 element sprag.
The outer race he machines usually had the stock 4L80E OD and grooves.
Also on the 99 and up year units... Chris' instructions for hydraulics may require and early 4L80E hollow main-shaft not a solid one.
The outer race he machines usually had the stock 4L80E OD and grooves.
Also on the 99 and up year units... Chris' instructions for hydraulics may require and early 4L80E hollow main-shaft not a solid one.
For a genuine 1500 fwhp...I'd personally be looking into an aluminum drum with steel sleeve for the sealing ring surface.
Also, with that much poer...it surprises me that you don't want/need a transbrake
Rollerize the output, and make sure you get endplay specs dialed in
Also, with that much poer...it surprises me that you don't want/need a transbrake
Rollerize the output, and make sure you get endplay specs dialed in
I am looking into a trans brake, Jakes or CK, the D321 auto shift style. I was looking for info on Rossler but couldnt find much info. Im leaning towards CK since I will be using the internals from the recal kit.
And I will definitely be rollerizing the output. From the MASTER SHIFT RE-CALIBRATION AND ASSEMBLY UPGRADE KIT CK provides I believe the bearings, bushings and shims are all included in this kit. along with new springs and such for the internals and dual feed.
Last edited by KillaBoDilla; Mar 4, 2020 at 06:33 AM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
There are a few threads on this forum and multiple fb posts in swap/performance pages about CK d3 brake and the issues it's had.
If it were my money, I'd be buying the Jakes D3 brake.
36 element will probably be ok under 7k rpm...but still, that's alot of mass to stop rotating in an instant. It's going to shock the sprag. But it could very well live.
If it were my money, I'd be buying the Jakes D3 brake.
36 element will probably be ok under 7k rpm...but still, that's alot of mass to stop rotating in an instant. It's going to shock the sprag. But it could very well live.
transam69230 has had a Jakes, Rossler, and North Texas Converter in his 4L80E. He had said North Texas converter was the fastest releasing brake in his experience. Then again the North Texas may be a D1 variant. Not sure.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
I have RE-tested several 4L80E Trans-brakes over the last year... and both of Jake's valve-bodies seem to be the best performing that I see for 4 speed versions of this transmission.
If only using the transmission as a 3 speed (or in rare cases, a 2 speed)... There are better options.
The most resent CK valve-bodies are a huge improvement over older models, but not the best...
I would go with a Rossler unit second to one of Jake's.
If only using the transmission as a 3 speed (or in rare cases, a 2 speed)... There are better options.
The most resent CK valve-bodies are a huge improvement over older models, but not the best...
I would go with a Rossler unit second to one of Jake's.
Trending Topics
What about seals, pistons, bushings? Is there a certain manufacturer of these items that is preferred over others in a high hp 4L80E build or does it matter?
I'm aware of "just buy ____ kit it has everything you need" but curious on if there is any preference for those of you that have worked with different manufacturers.
Clevite and federal mogul for all bushings? Durabond?
Precision international for all seals and gaskets? Transmaxx?
GM for molded rubber pistons?
I've gathered that the Borg Warner high energy frictions are preferred over the Alto Red in most cases and that for steels the Kolene variant is often recommended.
I'm aware of "just buy ____ kit it has everything you need" but curious on if there is any preference for those of you that have worked with different manufacturers.
Clevite and federal mogul for all bushings? Durabond?
Precision international for all seals and gaskets? Transmaxx?
GM for molded rubber pistons?
I've gathered that the Borg Warner high energy frictions are preferred over the Alto Red in most cases and that for steels the Kolene variant is often recommended.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
I prefer NOT kolene in fwd and direct.
And any bushing will work...if you roast a bushing...it won't be the fault of the brand used.
As for the seals...any will work. Toledo, transtec, etc etc. I'd recommend finding aluminum "wide shelf" pistons instead of the molded. The larger work surface more evenly applies the clutches. Is it critical...probably not. But if you're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it...Might as well.
If you get the hydraulics right, and the basic build process right (endplay, concentricity, etc) you'll be fine.
And any bushing will work...if you roast a bushing...it won't be the fault of the brand used.
As for the seals...any will work. Toledo, transtec, etc etc. I'd recommend finding aluminum "wide shelf" pistons instead of the molded. The larger work surface more evenly applies the clutches. Is it critical...probably not. But if you're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it...Might as well.
If you get the hydraulics right, and the basic build process right (endplay, concentricity, etc) you'll be fine.
I prefer NOT kolene in fwd and direct.
And any bushing will work...if you roast a bushing...it won't be the fault of the brand used.
As for the seals...any will work. Toledo, transtec, etc etc. I'd recommend finding aluminum "wide shelf" pistons instead of the molded. The larger work surface more evenly applies the clutches. Is it critical...probably not. But if you're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it...Might as well.
If you get the hydraulics right, and the basic build process right (endplay, concentricity, etc) you'll be fine.
And any bushing will work...if you roast a bushing...it won't be the fault of the brand used.
As for the seals...any will work. Toledo, transtec, etc etc. I'd recommend finding aluminum "wide shelf" pistons instead of the molded. The larger work surface more evenly applies the clutches. Is it critical...probably not. But if you're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it...Might as well.
If you get the hydraulics right, and the basic build process right (endplay, concentricity, etc) you'll be fine.
Last edited by 5.7stroker; Mar 4, 2020 at 03:27 PM.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 487
Likes: 6
From: Orange, Texas
What fluid are you going to run? If you run Hy-guard tractor fluid and the stiffest spring in the CK kit your pressures will be too high and the pump will fail. You want to be in the 180 to 190 range, mine was pushing 240ish with the stiffest spring and the pump failed. Just so happened it was 3rd gear at 120ish when it happened
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 5
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What fluid are you going to run? If you run Hy-guard tractor fluid and the stiffest spring in the CK kit your pressures will be too high and the pump will fail. You want to be in the 180 to 190 range, mine was pushing 240ish with the stiffest spring and the pump failed. Just so happened it was 3rd gear at 120ish when it happened
Also for those of you that have used the 36 element sprag from Jake's, does it use the stock clutches same as the CK unit?
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 487
Likes: 6
From: Orange, Texas
I'm still running the low-vis Hy-Guard, I went with the next spring down and use the EPC to keep it below 200. Never dyno'd the car but i figure I was making 800 to 900. based on the 140 mph 1/4 mile trap speed.
The 36 element sprag and steel direct drum are a turbo 400 piece and will take the same clutches, you'll usually only get 5 in there though instead of 6 that goes in the stock 4L80 drum.
The 36 element sprag and steel direct drum are a turbo 400 piece and will take the same clutches, you'll usually only get 5 in there though instead of 6 that goes in the stock 4L80 drum.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
I'm still running the low-vis Hy-Guard, I went with the next spring down and use the EPC to keep it below 200. Never dyno'd the car but i figure I was making 800 to 900. based on the 140 mph 1/4 mile trap speed.
The 36 element sprag and steel direct drum are a turbo 400 piece and will take the same clutches, you'll usually only get 5 in there though instead of 6 that goes in the stock 4L80 drum.
The 36 element sprag and steel direct drum are a turbo 400 piece and will take the same clutches, you'll usually only get 5 in there though instead of 6 that goes in the stock 4L80 drum.
Some 36 element sprag setups use the stock th400/4l80e intermediate clutch splines...some use a different clutch spline (usually from a ford trans)
B. you can use the 4l80e molded piston in the drum and stack up 6 clutches no problem. OR you can use an OEM cast aluminum piston, machine the work surface, and stack 6 clutches in there.
C. I know an 80e can live just fine at 150psi at over 1000 hp...I don't recommend it...but it has been done more than once. the 180-190psi you mentioned above is just about perfect for almost any setup.