how hard is it to rebuild a 4l60e
how hard is it to rebuild a 4l60e ive never rebuilt one or any transmission for that matter are they hard to do what kind of special tools will you need an dose any one know of a high performance rebuild kit thats good that will hold 600hp or so. or a parts list of things i will need will i even save that much money doing it my self? i was looking at a peformabuilt lvl 2 after all is said and done i expect it to be around 2800 to my door if i go that route.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Iowa
@PBA Dana has great kits with great instructions.
Now...how hard is it? That's a loaded question. If you've never done one before, you'll probably think it's pretty tough.
After doing 100s, I'd say it's a pretty simple trans to build.
Watch some youtube videos, buy a $30 ATSG book...then decide if you want to do it yourself or not
Now...how hard is it? That's a loaded question. If you've never done one before, you'll probably think it's pretty tough.
After doing 100s, I'd say it's a pretty simple trans to build.
Watch some youtube videos, buy a $30 ATSG book...then decide if you want to do it yourself or not
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,913
Likes: 366
From: White Bear, Mn
I agree with MaroonMonsterLS1.
I will say this as someone having a few successful builds thanks to the help from these guys.....
It is very overwhelming at first but as long as you stay very organized and work clean I say go for it.
My last build I had a driveline failure crack my case, busted tail shaft, took out both sprag assemblies and few other things and I clipped through that rebuild with good confidence but also having a few questions for these guys.
If you are mechanical at all I say go for it. It's actually kind of fun, (more so since my builds have been a success) and very interesting seeing how it works imo.
To me I find it crazy that someone could developer something so complex and have it work the way it does.
Take that for what it's worth because im still trying to wrap my head around how a microwave works
Here is my thread that has lots of good info and covers a lot of rookie stuff.
Rookie 4l60e build
I will say this as someone having a few successful builds thanks to the help from these guys.....
It is very overwhelming at first but as long as you stay very organized and work clean I say go for it.
My last build I had a driveline failure crack my case, busted tail shaft, took out both sprag assemblies and few other things and I clipped through that rebuild with good confidence but also having a few questions for these guys.
If you are mechanical at all I say go for it. It's actually kind of fun, (more so since my builds have been a success) and very interesting seeing how it works imo.
To me I find it crazy that someone could developer something so complex and have it work the way it does.
Take that for what it's worth because im still trying to wrap my head around how a microwave works
Here is my thread that has lots of good info and covers a lot of rookie stuff.
Rookie 4l60e build
@PBA Dana has great kits with great instructions.
Now...how hard is it? That's a loaded question. If you've never done one before, you'll probably think it's pretty tough.
After doing 100s, I'd say it's a pretty simple trans to build.
Watch some youtube videos, buy a $30 ATSG book...then decide if you want to do it yourself or not
Now...how hard is it? That's a loaded question. If you've never done one before, you'll probably think it's pretty tough.
After doing 100s, I'd say it's a pretty simple trans to build.
Watch some youtube videos, buy a $30 ATSG book...then decide if you want to do it yourself or not
Thanks I went to his web site looks like he has some really nice stuff I'll deffinently give him a call when I'm ready. Watched a couple videos it don't look that bad the main thing it is you got to keep everything very organized and in order to reduce the chanse of getting something mixed up.
I agree with MaroonMonsterLS1.
I will say this as someone having a few successful builds thanks to the help from these guys.....
It is very overwhelming at first but as long as you stay very organized and work clean I say go for it.
My last build I had a driveline failure crack my case, busted tail shaft, took out both sprag assemblies and few other things and I clipped through that rebuild with good confidence but also having a few questions for these guys.
If you are mechanical at all I say go for it. It's actually kind of fun, (more so since my builds have been a success) and very interesting seeing how it works imo.
To me I find it crazy that someone could developer something so complex and have it work the way it does.
Take that for what it's worth because im still trying to wrap my head around how a microwave works
Here is my thread that has lots of good info and covers a lot of rookie stuff.
Rookie 4l60e build
I will say this as someone having a few successful builds thanks to the help from these guys.....
It is very overwhelming at first but as long as you stay very organized and work clean I say go for it.
My last build I had a driveline failure crack my case, busted tail shaft, took out both sprag assemblies and few other things and I clipped through that rebuild with good confidence but also having a few questions for these guys.
If you are mechanical at all I say go for it. It's actually kind of fun, (more so since my builds have been a success) and very interesting seeing how it works imo.
To me I find it crazy that someone could developer something so complex and have it work the way it does.
Take that for what it's worth because im still trying to wrap my head around how a microwave works
Here is my thread that has lots of good info and covers a lot of rookie stuff.
Rookie 4l60e build
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
I am all for someone new to take on rebuilding their unit... and/ or learning the process.
However you brought up cost...
I do not feel that you will really save money rebuilding the unit yourself.
I am assuming that no matter if you purchase a rebuilt unit or rebuild yourself; that you will be installing the unit into the car.
So I do not really see money to be saved.
However you brought up cost...
I do not feel that you will really save money rebuilding the unit yourself.
I am assuming that no matter if you purchase a rebuilt unit or rebuild yourself; that you will be installing the unit into the car.
So I do not really see money to be saved.
I am all for someone new to take on rebuilding their unit... and/ or learning the process.
However you brought up cost...
I do not feel that you will really save money rebuilding the unit yourself.
I am assuming that no matter if you purchase a rebuilt unit or rebuild yourself; that you will be installing the unit into the car.
So I do not really see money to be saved.
However you brought up cost...
I do not feel that you will really save money rebuilding the unit yourself.
I am assuming that no matter if you purchase a rebuilt unit or rebuild yourself; that you will be installing the unit into the car.
So I do not really see money to be saved.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
I do plan on dropping the old one out and putting the new one in my self. The best kit off of pba's web site. Is around $1100 I don't think I'll need one that exstrem i think there $850 one rated for around 650fwhp will be more than enogh. Although I'm guessing I'll have to spend few more $ over the kit for fluids and odds and ends and what ever a full manual valve body kit costs. Plus I can't decide if I should reuse my 94 trans and update it or get a 95 core thats correct for the car.
Manual valve-body?
What do you have in mind?
To me... the greatest benefit of purchasing a complete package from Dana/ ProBuiltAutomatics; is that he puts together a "shift-kit" and other parts needed for the hydraulics of the transmission to hold the HP.
His 1993/ 1994 kit for up to 675 HP (at the crankshaft) costs $816.70 + tax and shipping.
You will need to replace your stock sun-shell... so that is another $30 to $55 depending on GM or aftermarket.
You will most likely need to replace the reverse input drum... so that is another $83.50
You will most likey need to replace the separator plate... so that is another $31.90
I would not reuse any of the ancient electronics in your transmission... so that is another $160.00 to $190.00
You also need a new torque-converter...
I love the packages that Dana puts together! I send DIY builders to him all the time!
For a DIY builder; I feel that he offers the most complete package with most everything already figured out for you.
Now the brass tacks... What he puts together for people took a lot of time and effort to figure out.
So, he charges a higher price than most for those parts... DO NOT get me wrong!
I feel he deserves what he charges and more!
But if you do not need the help that his packages offers to a novice or DIY builder... Save the money buying parts else where.
OR purchase from him, but a custom order less the valve-body bits.
If you are going to not use all the valve-body changes that the $800 kit includes... do not purchase it.
Instead call him up; tell him which manual valve-body you are going to use and have him provide you with all the other parts for the rebuild.
Manual valve-body?
What do you have in mind?
To me... the greatest benefit of purchasing a complete package from Dana/ ProBuiltAutomatics; is that he puts together a "shift-kit" and other parts needed for the hydraulics of the transmission to hold the HP.
His 1993/ 1994 kit for up to 675 HP (at the crankshaft) costs $816.70 + tax and shipping.
You will need to replace your stock sun-shell... so that is another $30 to $55 depending on GM or aftermarket.
You will most likely need to replace the reverse input drum... so that is another $83.50
You will most likey need to replace the separator plate... so that is another $31.90
I would not reuse any of the ancient electronics in your transmission... so that is another $160.00 to $190.00
You also need a new torque-converter...
I love the packages that Dana puts together! I send DIY builders to him all the time!
For a DIY builder; I feel that he offers the most complete package with most everything already figured out for you.
Now the brass tacks... What he puts together for people took a lot of time and effort to figure out.
So, he charges a higher price than most for those parts... DO NOT get me wrong!
I feel he deserves what he charges and more!
But if you do not need the help that his packages offers to a novice or DIY builder... Save the money buying parts else where.
OR purchase from him, but a custom order less the valve-body bits.
If you are going to not use all the valve-body changes that the $800 kit includes... do not purchase it.
Instead call him up; tell him which manual valve-body you are going to use and have him provide you with all the other parts for the rebuild.
What do you have in mind?
To me... the greatest benefit of purchasing a complete package from Dana/ ProBuiltAutomatics; is that he puts together a "shift-kit" and other parts needed for the hydraulics of the transmission to hold the HP.
His 1993/ 1994 kit for up to 675 HP (at the crankshaft) costs $816.70 + tax and shipping.
You will need to replace your stock sun-shell... so that is another $30 to $55 depending on GM or aftermarket.
You will most likely need to replace the reverse input drum... so that is another $83.50
You will most likey need to replace the separator plate... so that is another $31.90
I would not reuse any of the ancient electronics in your transmission... so that is another $160.00 to $190.00
You also need a new torque-converter...
I love the packages that Dana puts together! I send DIY builders to him all the time!
For a DIY builder; I feel that he offers the most complete package with most everything already figured out for you.
Now the brass tacks... What he puts together for people took a lot of time and effort to figure out.
So, he charges a higher price than most for those parts... DO NOT get me wrong!
I feel he deserves what he charges and more!
But if you do not need the help that his packages offers to a novice or DIY builder... Save the money buying parts else where.
OR purchase from him, but a custom order less the valve-body bits.
If you are going to not use all the valve-body changes that the $800 kit includes... do not purchase it.
Instead call him up; tell him which manual valve-body you are going to use and have him provide you with all the other parts for the rebuild.
The car is going to be a street/strip car and will be only driven on nice weekends when not at the track. As for the manual valve body it's more or less a compromise. I'm a stick shift guy at hart the 13 years I've been driveing I've mostly owned manual cars as i like to have control over each gear and I love going through the gears. if it was not for my wife I would swap a t56 in it and be done but my wife can't drive stick and always complins she cant drive any of my cars. becouse of it so I told her I would leave this one an auto Kind of. And I'm happy to pay little extra if I can get a kit with all the guess work taken out of it. saves me time and is a lot easier for me being my first build.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
The car is going to be a street/strip car and will be only driven on nice weekends when not at the track. As for the manual valve body it's more or less a compromise. I'm a stick shift guy at hart the 13 years I've been driveing I've mostly owned manual cars as i like to have control over each gear and I love going through the gears. if it was not for my wife I would swap a t56 in it and be done but my wife can't drive stick and always complins she cant drive any of my cars. becouse of it so I told her I would leave this one an auto Kind of. And I'm happy to pay little extra if I can get a kit with all the guess work taken out of it. saves me time and is a lot easier for me being my first build.
Personally; I feel that if the car will be street driven at all... RETAINING the variable line-pressure system is critical!!!
Most of the time, when using a "Full-Manual Valve-Body" on a transmission... Line-Pressure becomes FIXED at the maximum attainable pressure.
This is created extra wear and tear on the oil-pump and other transmission components.
The THM400/ 3L80 and 4L80E transmissions have a pump design that manages fixed line-pressure... compared to the 4L60E.
On the 4L60E fixed line-pressure can be very hard on the oil-pump... too hard!
I personally would use a mixture of the TransGo HD2 or 4L60E-3 valve-body kit and keeping the solenoids in and powered (the shift solenoids get rewired to be electrically controlled, instead of electronically).
The 2 shift solenoids get their wires cut and then tapped into the pressure-manifold-switch using diodes (keeping the rest of the solenoids connected the normal way... a tune is needed to prevent DTCs).
You keep variable line-pressure and torque-converter clutch lock-up function this way.
Just using the TransGo kit will eliminate TCC lock-up control and variable line-pressure.
I personally make my own version of what I was describing above... But wait to get some other members opinions and techniques for doing such.
Have mine apart right now and all the parts will finish coming in this week.
Isnt that crazy. And having the ATSG book, you could toss everything into a pile and still get it back together correctly. That repair manual is pretty amazing
Isnt that crazy. And having the ATSG book, you could toss everything into a pile and still get it back together correctly. That repair manual is pretty amazing
I'll give you my opinion for what it's worth. I rebuilt a 4L65 some years ago now. I bought a kit from Dana /PBA. Trans shifted great. It had some odd issue where when it was in OD and the converter was locked up, it was just loose all forward drive. I could drop it down into 3, and it would be fine, slap it back into OD and it would shift nice, and the converter would lock back up. It might stay fine for hours or minutes. Eventually, after never finding any solid answers on it, I just decided to build a 80 E.
Again, I bought a kit from Dana. The 80 E is much easier to build imo. Less "garbage", more straight forward (and more hardy) I alsos had a issue with this one. 2 guys who are contributing to your thread, gave me some things to consider, and on my 80e, it ended up just being a bad (new gm) shift solinoid.
Dana has nice kits and he is a great guy to talk to, but in my experience, his troubleshooting skills/help on both my 60e and 80e problems, were not helpful. Sometimes help is priceless when you're having issues. Luckily for me, this forum/members really helped me out/learn.
Again, I bought a kit from Dana. The 80 E is much easier to build imo. Less "garbage", more straight forward (and more hardy) I alsos had a issue with this one. 2 guys who are contributing to your thread, gave me some things to consider, and on my 80e, it ended up just being a bad (new gm) shift solinoid.
Dana has nice kits and he is a great guy to talk to, but in my experience, his troubleshooting skills/help on both my 60e and 80e problems, were not helpful. Sometimes help is priceless when you're having issues. Luckily for me, this forum/members really helped me out/learn.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
To my mind it depends on the car, how much you depend on it, and how much free time you have on your hands. If the car is a weekend warrior, and you don't depend on it for getting you where you need to go, and if you have the time to drop it and go through it all over again if it doesn't turn out right, then go for it.
If reading this forum has taught me anything, there are a lot of highly specialized and subtle "tricks of the trade" that are involved in a successful build of one of these transmissions, especially in a high-performance scenario. How many threads have we seen on here over the years where a guy brings his trans to a local rebuilder only to have the 3-4 clutch pack fail within a few hundred miles? And these are jobs done by guys who build transmissions for a living.
Study, study, study, and be prepared for it not to go right the first time. No doubt it would be a great learning experience, however it turns out. But if you want "one and done", buy a unit from one of the reputable builders we know on here.
If reading this forum has taught me anything, there are a lot of highly specialized and subtle "tricks of the trade" that are involved in a successful build of one of these transmissions, especially in a high-performance scenario. How many threads have we seen on here over the years where a guy brings his trans to a local rebuilder only to have the 3-4 clutch pack fail within a few hundred miles? And these are jobs done by guys who build transmissions for a living.
Study, study, study, and be prepared for it not to go right the first time. No doubt it would be a great learning experience, however it turns out. But if you want "one and done", buy a unit from one of the reputable builders we know on here.
I'll give you my opinion for what it's worth. I rebuilt a 4L65 some years ago now. I bought a kit from Dana /PBA. Trans shifted great. It had some odd issue where when it was in OD and the converter was locked up, it was just loose all forward drive. I could drop it down into 3, and it would be fine, slap it back into OD and it would shift nice, and the converter would lock back up. It might stay fine for hours or minutes. Eventually, after never finding any solid answers on it, I just decided to build a 80 E.
Again, I bought a kit from Dana. The 80 E is much easier to build imo. Less "garbage", more straight forward (and more hardy) I alsos had a issue with this one. 2 guys who are contributing to your thread, gave me some things to consider, and on my 80e, it ended up just being a bad (new gm) shift solinoid.
Dana has nice kits and he is a great guy to talk to, but in my experience, his troubleshooting skills/help on both my 60e and 80e problems, were not helpful. Sometimes help is priceless when you're having issues. Luckily for me, this forum/members really helped me out/learn.
Again, I bought a kit from Dana. The 80 E is much easier to build imo. Less "garbage", more straight forward (and more hardy) I alsos had a issue with this one. 2 guys who are contributing to your thread, gave me some things to consider, and on my 80e, it ended up just being a bad (new gm) shift solinoid.
Dana has nice kits and he is a great guy to talk to, but in my experience, his troubleshooting skills/help on both my 60e and 80e problems, were not helpful. Sometimes help is priceless when you're having issues. Luckily for me, this forum/members really helped me out/learn.
To my mind it depends on the car, how much you depend on it, and how much free time you have on your hands. If the car is a weekend warrior, and you don't depend on it for getting you where you need to go, and if you have the time to drop it and go through it all over again if it doesn't turn out right, then go for it.
If reading this forum has taught me anything, there are a lot of highly specialized and subtle "tricks of the trade" that are involved in a successful build of one of these transmissions, especially in a high-performance scenario. How many threads have we seen on here over the years where a guy brings his trans to a local rebuilder only to have the 3-4 clutch pack fail within a few hundred miles? And these are jobs done by guys who build transmissions for a living.
Study, study, study, and be prepared for it not to go right the first time. No doubt it would be a great learning experience, however it turns out. But if you want "one and done", buy a unit from one of the reputable builders we know on here.
If reading this forum has taught me anything, there are a lot of highly specialized and subtle "tricks of the trade" that are involved in a successful build of one of these transmissions, especially in a high-performance scenario. How many threads have we seen on here over the years where a guy brings his trans to a local rebuilder only to have the 3-4 clutch pack fail within a few hundred miles? And these are jobs done by guys who build transmissions for a living.
Study, study, study, and be prepared for it not to go right the first time. No doubt it would be a great learning experience, however it turns out. But if you want "one and done", buy a unit from one of the reputable builders we know on here.
Thanks for your replys the car is more a week end warrior and dont rely on it so if I mess something up I won't be out of a car. Also I like to do things on my own and learn how they work. And you get a certain satisfaction out of driving your car down the road that you built your self.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
I really like transmission benches videos I'm a very visual person I have to see it and put my hands on it before I can understand it his videos help with that. I watched the 5 videos and think I'm going to buy the whole set for all his transmission videos. if my rebuild goes ok I'm thinking about rebuilding some transmission on the side for extra cash. I already got a couple people at work that want me to rebuild there 4l60e's if my rebuild is successful.
I started one of those videos a few years back... I only made it about 3 minutes in...
LOL! These videos have to be some of the most boring/ dull content ever recorded!
I feel badly for you guys that watch these... Honestly just download the ATSG manuals/ ATRA updates...
20 minutes maximum of reading... Then just tear into the unit!!!
Taking the unit apart is the BEST method to learn about what is right in front of you!
Good luck and have fun!