a10 in a 4th gen?
a10 in a 4th gen? I see a lot of people being positive on the a10 in mustangs. I have one in my escalade and really like how it shifts. Anyone thinking about these in a 4th gen? will they even fit? controllers?
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Iowa
the 10 speed automatic that ford and gm worked on together? Is that what you're referring to?
If so...I currently know of nobody that has swapped one into a 4th gen. No aftermarket controllers.
Best bet would be to use factory gm ECU/TCU combo for that setup. A whole pullout from a wreck would be the way to get all needed components that communicate
If so...I currently know of nobody that has swapped one into a 4th gen. No aftermarket controllers.
Best bet would be to use factory gm ECU/TCU combo for that setup. A whole pullout from a wreck would be the way to get all needed components that communicate
yes, that same a10. wiki is showing it in these cars...
10L80 MF6[edit]
- 2018- Chevrolet Suburban RST
- 2018- Cadillac Escalade
- 2018- Chevrolet Tahoe
- 2018- GMC Yukon Denali
- 2019- Chevrolet Camaro SS
- 2019- Chevrolet Silverado
- 2019- GMC Sierra
10L90 MGL[edit]
- 2017- Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
- 2019- Cadillac CT6
TECH Junkie
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From: Nitro Alley
I have one running in a tube-frame car that I use for R and D.
I had to use the original ECM, TCM, EBTCM, TCSCM, BCM, VCIM, IPC, and the original pair of UBECs, pair of IPBECs, rear compartment BEC, and all the original wiring...
The High-speed/ Low-speed data lines want to see most everything that belongs in the car... otherwise U-Type DTCs start piling up and shutting down systems.
Until programming becomes more available to eliminate most of this crap...
I do NOT recommend it.
I had to use the original ECM, TCM, EBTCM, TCSCM, BCM, VCIM, IPC, and the original pair of UBECs, pair of IPBECs, rear compartment BEC, and all the original wiring...
The High-speed/ Low-speed data lines want to see most everything that belongs in the car... otherwise U-Type DTCs start piling up and shutting down systems.
Until programming becomes more available to eliminate most of this crap...
I do NOT recommend it.
Last edited by vorteciroc; Jul 27, 2020 at 11:57 PM.
I also didn't think GM would make it easy, CANBUS will rule more often it appears as they try to integrate everything on that network. will be harder down the road to run these systems unless companies make their own controllers and sell them. I see speartech has some kind of offering but for the new LTx/10L90 combo.
http://www.speartech.com/product_p/sa-ltx-10l90.htm
Holley has the Term X running the new DI LTx engines but still needs the 4L60/80 only it appears. which are far easier but no 10 speed support yet.
Also, the BMW guys have cracked the DCT trans and that controller is 1k. I would think with these things landing in a lot of cars, we should see some aftermarket support on standalone controllers hopefully.
https://www.dkgecu.com/l/what-is-dkgecu/
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TECH Junkie
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From: White Bear, Mn
TECH Junkie
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From: Nitro Alley
I personally see no benefit in more than 6 gear ranges...
The now old Borg Warner T56 sold me on a double over-drive six speed.
8 and 10 speed units often do not use every gear range for normal driving.
Some times first gear is only used for hard acceleration, as the unit will start off in second or third gear.
The now old Borg Warner T56 sold me on a double over-drive six speed.
8 and 10 speed units often do not use every gear range for normal driving.
Some times first gear is only used for hard acceleration, as the unit will start off in second or third gear.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I agree. While the 2 or 3-speed isn't necessarily ideal for a daily driver (especially when cruising at higher speeds and/or with a loose converter), with an A4 you have OD and lock-up (I do realize that some A3 transmissions also had a TCC, but those still don't have OD) so I don't really see any worthwhile net benefit to all the added cost and complexity of an A10 swap over an A4 with an optimized stall speed in a car that is already set up for such (street OR track, IMO).
BUT when this Cadillac got that 10sp, I can't explain it other than the car is simply more enjoyable to drive. So I don't disagree with your point about 6 gears, it's not about the six gears, it's the experience and enjoyment of driving and this a10 so far has nailed it. I would like that in my fbody if I can get it. I went from a t56 to a th400 and have a 4l80e ready to go in when I get some time. I may just go to a MagnumF now that they are out, but would be neat to have that auto 'crisp' driving experience that the a10 provides in the fbody.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,627
Likes: 2,543
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I daily drove a t56 for many many years. that was my choice always and really enjoyed the tr6060 in my c6z when I had it. Up until this 10sp, most if not all the automatics I drove from GM felt that lazy acceleration and never had that just right crispness in cruise, off the line, etc. Never felt that 'crispness' that you feel driving a mercedes automatic e.g. or BMW and the DCTs are like manuals so not comparing those.
BUT when this Cadillac got that 10sp, I can't explain it other than the car is simply more enjoyable to drive. So I don't disagree with your point about 6 gears, it's not about the six gears, it's the experience and enjoyment of driving and this a10 so far has nailed it. I would like that in my fbody if I can get it. I went from a t56 to a th400 and have a 4l80e ready to go in when I get some time. I may just go to a MagnumF now that they are out, but would be neat to have that auto 'crisp' driving experience that the a10 provides in the fbody.
BUT when this Cadillac got that 10sp, I can't explain it other than the car is simply more enjoyable to drive. So I don't disagree with your point about 6 gears, it's not about the six gears, it's the experience and enjoyment of driving and this a10 so far has nailed it. I would like that in my fbody if I can get it. I went from a t56 to a th400 and have a 4l80e ready to go in when I get some time. I may just go to a MagnumF now that they are out, but would be neat to have that auto 'crisp' driving experience that the a10 provides in the fbody.
But then it might also be that you're looking for a "manual" type feeling (one of more direct connection) from an auto, and that doesn't really come from a higher stall speed in one of the older units (in fact, that often provides the opposite effect - at least at part throttle). I actually don't care for manuals in general, so perhaps that's why I never felt like a properly set up auto was lacking anything of value, to me.
I'm interested in driving an A10 car now at some point, just to see if there is something which appeals to me as well. Honestly, I was not at all impressed with the A8 in the earlier 6th gen Camaros. That's the most modern automatic I've driven, and I definitely prefer a well built A3/A4 setup over the A8.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2019
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From: Atlanta, GA
I get this, but at that point wouldn’t you just rather have the whole 6th gen with the 10spd attached? The 4th gen is missing the refinement and advancements in so many other areas that sticking an A10 in there for highway drivability and gas mileage is a little like smearing lipstick on a pig.
How do you define "crispness" in this context? Are you referring to shift quality/specific transmission behavior as it relates to vehicle performance, or is this more about overall throttle response and/or the engine always seeming to be in the "sweet spot" due to the gearing of this unit? If the former, then this can certainly be duplicated (or better) with a well built older unit of 3 or 4 speeds...but since you've mentioned having a TH400 (and building one of those for excellent shifts is certainly not a problem for any competent builder) I'm guessing that's not the issue. So it must be more regarding the latter. While I haven't personally driven an A10 car yet, I can't say that I've ever felt that any sort of "crispness" was lacking from a well built/tuned A3/A4 transmission with an optimized (high quality) converter and final gear ratio.
But then it might also be that you're looking for a "manual" type feeling (one of more direct connection) from an auto, and that doesn't really come from a higher stall speed in one of the older units (in fact, that often provides the opposite effect - at least at part throttle). I actually don't care for manuals in general, so perhaps that's why I never felt like a properly set up auto was lacking anything of value, to me.
I'm interested in driving an A10 car now at some point, just to see if there is something which appeals to me as well. Honestly, I was not at all impressed with the A8 in the earlier 6th gen Camaros. That's the most modern automatic I've driven, and I definitely prefer a well built A3/A4 setup over the A8.
But then it might also be that you're looking for a "manual" type feeling (one of more direct connection) from an auto, and that doesn't really come from a higher stall speed in one of the older units (in fact, that often provides the opposite effect - at least at part throttle). I actually don't care for manuals in general, so perhaps that's why I never felt like a properly set up auto was lacking anything of value, to me.
I'm interested in driving an A10 car now at some point, just to see if there is something which appeals to me as well. Honestly, I was not at all impressed with the A8 in the earlier 6th gen Camaros. That's the most modern automatic I've driven, and I definitely prefer a well built A3/A4 setup over the A8.
I get this, but at that point wouldn’t you just rather have the whole 6th gen with the 10spd attached? The 4th gen is missing the refinement and advancements in so many other areas that sticking an A10 in there for highway drivability and gas mileage is a little like smearing lipstick on a pig.
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From: Nitro Alley
The ECM and TCM alone will not do it.
The data lines are entangled into the other modules like a spider-web...
Thus I used the ECM, TCM, EBTCM, TCSCM, BCM, VCIM, IPC.
The TCSCM is not needed for a two wheel drive car and the EBTCM is probably not needed if the TCSCM is not used.