4l60e transmission issues!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
I am definitely not the best person to answer this...
However, I will tell you what I do know.
Most of my experience with PCMs that old; is from my time at General Motors (using GM tooling for programming and configuration).
Any time a PCM was changed, it of course had to be programmed... but part of that was entering the VIN of the vehicle into data (other modules in the vehicle will access the VIN over the data line; especially the VCIM and BCM).
If someone simply unplugged 2 PCMs and switched them between 2 vehicles... The VIN would not match, both the VCIM and BCM would see this and put the theft deterrent system into action.
Depending on which model and year PCM, you have... You should be able to do what you are thinking... but would have to use software like HP-Tuners to do the setup/ configuration.
There are several guys here that use aftermarket software and scanners/ programmers like this everyday at their business.
I personally stopped using HP-Tuners, years ago.
Most every vehicle that I do serious modifications to will have had Holley modules installed by me.
The vehicles that are mostly stock... I am able to still use the GM MDI and TIS2 systems for any programming needs.
Good luck!
However, I will tell you what I do know.
Most of my experience with PCMs that old; is from my time at General Motors (using GM tooling for programming and configuration).
Any time a PCM was changed, it of course had to be programmed... but part of that was entering the VIN of the vehicle into data (other modules in the vehicle will access the VIN over the data line; especially the VCIM and BCM).
If someone simply unplugged 2 PCMs and switched them between 2 vehicles... The VIN would not match, both the VCIM and BCM would see this and put the theft deterrent system into action.
Depending on which model and year PCM, you have... You should be able to do what you are thinking... but would have to use software like HP-Tuners to do the setup/ configuration.
There are several guys here that use aftermarket software and scanners/ programmers like this everyday at their business.
I personally stopped using HP-Tuners, years ago.
Most every vehicle that I do serious modifications to will have had Holley modules installed by me.
The vehicles that are mostly stock... I am able to still use the GM MDI and TIS2 systems for any programming needs.
Good luck!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Yea I was kinda afraid of that.....
Iv never had one good experience with dealer or any other shop ( doing diag )..... I always get told it's something it's not ( like the ford transmission ordeal ).... Every transmission shop is gonna wanna sale me a rebuild - every dealer is gonna want the same but possibly wanna say the computer is causing the issue..... IDK what to do....
Iv never had one good experience with dealer or any other shop ( doing diag )..... I always get told it's something it's not ( like the ford transmission ordeal ).... Every transmission shop is gonna wanna sale me a rebuild - every dealer is gonna want the same but possibly wanna say the computer is causing the issue..... IDK what to do....
No matter what the persons job title is... at a GM dealership; EVERYONE is working in sales!
Need a part... guess what? SALES!
Need a vehicle repaired... guess what? SALES!
Need a new vehicle... Well, you get it.
They are very limited in what they can/ can not do; as dictated by GM.
It can suck!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
The only people within 200 miles of you; that I know...
Is a 4L80E transmission specialist: Jake's Performance Transmissions (just North of DFW TX).
He is considered to be one the best builders of modified 4L80Es, THM400s, and THM200-4Rs.
He also does custom torque-converters in house (that is really nice... I wish I was set up to do torque-converters).
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
I do not... Sorry.
The only people within 200 miles of you; that I know...
Is a 4L80E transmission specialist: Jake's Performance Transmissions (just North of DFW TX).
He is considered to be one the best builders of modified 4L80Es, THM400s, and THM200-4Rs.
He also does custom torque-converters in house (that is really nice... I wish I was set up to do torque-converters).
The only people within 200 miles of you; that I know...
Is a 4L80E transmission specialist: Jake's Performance Transmissions (just North of DFW TX).
He is considered to be one the best builders of modified 4L80Es, THM400s, and THM200-4Rs.
He also does custom torque-converters in house (that is really nice... I wish I was set up to do torque-converters).
Do you build transmissions?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Regarding the brakes:
Generally when the brake pedal is soft with the brakes not working/ slowing the vehicle down...
There is a brake fluid leak or air in the system.
It is common to get air trapped in the ABS pressure manifold after a brake job that did not properly bleed the brake calipers and ABS pressure manifold.
This will produce an ABS and / or a brake warning indicator.
If there is no sign of brake fluid leaking outside the vehicle... the ABS pressure manifold/ solenoids may have an internal leak.
This truck uses one combined control module for both the ABS and Traction Control. The module is referred to as the E.B.T.C.M. (electronic brake and traction control module). GM uses the terms "Traction Control" and "Stability System" interchangeably.
Most of the Caddy Escalades used a hydraulic power brake booster that operates off of the power-steering pump.
Normally if the hydraulic brake booster is not working the brake pedal will feel too hard to depress and the steering wheel will be a struggle to turn.
Yes I would find a way to scan codes in the EBTCM... cheap PCM/ engine code readers usually will not read these codes.
The DTCs in this module will be shown as "C" codes (as in Chassis) as apposed to "P" codes (as in Power-Train).
You may also have some "B" codes (Body Control Module) and "U" codes (Data Line codes).
Generally when the brake pedal is soft with the brakes not working/ slowing the vehicle down...
There is a brake fluid leak or air in the system.
It is common to get air trapped in the ABS pressure manifold after a brake job that did not properly bleed the brake calipers and ABS pressure manifold.
This will produce an ABS and / or a brake warning indicator.
If there is no sign of brake fluid leaking outside the vehicle... the ABS pressure manifold/ solenoids may have an internal leak.
This truck uses one combined control module for both the ABS and Traction Control. The module is referred to as the E.B.T.C.M. (electronic brake and traction control module). GM uses the terms "Traction Control" and "Stability System" interchangeably.
Most of the Caddy Escalades used a hydraulic power brake booster that operates off of the power-steering pump.
Normally if the hydraulic brake booster is not working the brake pedal will feel too hard to depress and the steering wheel will be a struggle to turn.
Yes I would find a way to scan codes in the EBTCM... cheap PCM/ engine code readers usually will not read these codes.
The DTCs in this module will be shown as "C" codes (as in Chassis) as apposed to "P" codes (as in Power-Train).
You may also have some "B" codes (Body Control Module) and "U" codes (Data Line codes).
Seeing how the front brakes are working and the rear are not ( would you say master cylinder is bad ) or is there a chance there is a issue with the abs controller you spoke of ....... I find it strange the front get hot and the rear stay ice cold ( the rotors are cool to the touch ) should I try to bleed?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Here is another strange thing to note..... The other night when I was driving home from muskogee back to the city.... A strange noise developed about 20 miles into the drive - at first I thought it was the radio (like music in the background) but after beating on the radio a few times I figured out it was something in the right front..... I slowed down from 75 to 40 and the noise just stopped..... Pulled over and could not find a thing wrong..... I took of and got back up to 75 and the noise was gone.... Drove about another 50 miles and ( the same way air breaks on a semi blow off ) this noise came back ( like a switch was thrown ) it just came back instantly...... Same as before - pulled over ( as soon as I drove below 40 it stopped ) however this time it came back as soon as I reached 40 again and this time it stayed.... Tried several times to pull over and figure the noise out..... Even turned of truck and restarted..... Everytime I reached 40 it came back and stayed ... Finally gave up and just kept driving.... After about 60 miles the noise just faded and hasn't came back. Best way I know to describe the noise is a Dremel running..... Not grinding but that high pitch buzzing....
Any clue on this?
Any clue on this?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Something to note from today..... Truck blew the transmission cooler line out....... Lucky I was right around the corner from the house...... Man it was strange..... The truck had been shifting really good all day today...... And about the time that it popped in my head ( the truck is shifting better ) I noticed a slip - then the smoke ( from fluid hitting exhaust ) it stopped pulling a block later ( I shut it off and dumped 2qts in and drove it home ).... It maybe my fault - I used grease on the quick connect side and did not install those plastic clips that stop the clips from expanding and popping the line out...... Iv never used those cheap plastic clips - never seen one blow lines before..... Lesson learned.....
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Last question and I'll shut up for a bit..... What transmission is supposed to be in this truck? My boss claims ( 4l60e ) but everyone iv talked to keep saying 4l65e....... Could it be we have the wrong transmission it - will the wiring and such plug up the different transmissions?😱😱😱
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Like I have previously stated... all 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70E models are the same transmission (4L60E with slightly different vehicle weight to power ratings).
And there really is no point in spending more, lets say for a 4L65E over a 4L60E.
The bigger differences/ changes for this transmission are based on year of production.
1993 through 2013/ 2014 is a massive production run...
Not to mention that the 4L60E is based on the THM700-R4/ 4L60 transmission (produced 1982-1993) and shares most parts from 1982 through 2013/ 2014.
4L60E transmissions circa 2006 (depending on actual Julian Date) added an Input Speed Sensor.
And there really is no point in spending more, lets say for a 4L65E over a 4L60E.
The bigger differences/ changes for this transmission are based on year of production.
1993 through 2013/ 2014 is a massive production run...
Not to mention that the 4L60E is based on the THM700-R4/ 4L60 transmission (produced 1982-1993) and shares most parts from 1982 through 2013/ 2014.
4L60E transmissions circa 2006 (depending on actual Julian Date) added an Input Speed Sensor.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Wiring changes are based on model year.
Mostly, 2005 and older can use the same wiring (there are odd-ball years... 1993, 1994, 1995).
2006-2008 can use the same wiring.
2009-2013/ 2014 can use the same wiring.
Mostly, 2005 and older can use the same wiring (there are odd-ball years... 1993, 1994, 1995).
2006-2008 can use the same wiring.
2009-2013/ 2014 can use the same wiring.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Yea I just talked to - Blumenthal transmissions here in the city...... Tim ( my buddy ) use to work for them.... They confirmed the same thing y'all are saying and Tim has been saying...... Even Blumenthal talked good about Tim..... Said he was good at what he does...... Idk..... I'm gonna go get some transmission fluid and fix this line and see what happens.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Here are the codes for abs.....
C0207
C0223
C0298
C0288
C0221
C0285
C0290
C0222
Any help?
Side note. I may have trigger some of these..... The other night a buddy suggested I pull the abs fuse and drive around and see if anything changes with shift.... It did not .. I have reinstall abs fuse....
Last edited by RenegadeRomeo; Aug 25, 2020 at 02:02 PM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Here are the codes for abs.....
C0207
C0223
C0298
C0288
C0221
C0285
C0290
C0222
Any help?
Side note. I may have trigger some of these..... The other night a buddy suggested I pull the abs fuse and drive around and see if anything changes with shift.... It did not .. I have reinstall abs fuse....
C0207
C0223
C0298
C0288
C0221
C0285
C0290
C0222
Any help?
Side note. I may have trigger some of these..... The other night a buddy suggested I pull the abs fuse and drive around and see if anything changes with shift.... It did not .. I have reinstall abs fuse....
You have DTCs pertaining to circuits for one wheel-speed sensor (Front-Passenger), to circuits for the steering-wheel position sensors, and circuits for data/ communication and indicators.
Both the live data-stream and freeze-frame data need to be compared, the Class-2 Data Stream needs to be canned for "U" codes that correspond to matching "C" codes...
Then some physical and electronic testing must take place to start diagnosis...
More than likely you have multiple things going on... However this is not always the case (as it is possible for one issue to fault multiple circuits/ systems).
I have seen both a Sun-Roof drain and mice take down more than half of the electronic systems, in vehicles with near 50 to 60 modules each.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
Just double checking... all this is for a 2002 Escalade (full wheelbase).
You have DTCs pertaining to circuits for one wheel-speed sensor (Front-Passenger), to circuits for the steering-wheel position sensors, and circuits for data/ communication and indicators.
Both the live data-stream and freeze-frame data need to be compared, the Class-2 Data Stream needs to be canned for "U" codes that correspond to matching "C" codes...
Then some physical and electronic testing must take place to start diagnosis...
More than likely you have multiple things going on... However this is not always the case (as it is possible for one issue to fault multiple circuits/ systems).
I have seen both a Sun-Roof drain and mice take down more than half of the electronic systems, in vehicles with near 50 to 60 modules each.
You have DTCs pertaining to circuits for one wheel-speed sensor (Front-Passenger), to circuits for the steering-wheel position sensors, and circuits for data/ communication and indicators.
Both the live data-stream and freeze-frame data need to be compared, the Class-2 Data Stream needs to be canned for "U" codes that correspond to matching "C" codes...
Then some physical and electronic testing must take place to start diagnosis...
More than likely you have multiple things going on... However this is not always the case (as it is possible for one issue to fault multiple circuits/ systems).
I have seen both a Sun-Roof drain and mice take down more than half of the electronic systems, in vehicles with near 50 to 60 modules each.
Any chance I tigered some of the by pulling abs fuse.....
I ordered a new right front hub assembly ( speed sensor built in ) I'm betting this is ( somehow ) the weird noise I hard on the highway the other day......
I don't know what to think or do..... I'm about to pull my hair out..... So your saying I need to have it scanned for more codes?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 74
Likes: 2
I do not... Sorry.
The only people within 200 miles of you; that I know...
Is a 4L80E transmission specialist: Jake's Performance Transmissions (just North of DFW TX).
He is considered to be one the best builders of modified 4L80Es, THM400s, and THM200-4Rs.
He also does custom torque-converters in house (that is really nice... I wish I was set up to do torque-converters).
The only people within 200 miles of you; that I know...
Is a 4L80E transmission specialist: Jake's Performance Transmissions (just North of DFW TX).
He is considered to be one the best builders of modified 4L80Es, THM400s, and THM200-4Rs.
He also does custom torque-converters in house (that is really nice... I wish I was set up to do torque-converters).
Would you recommend any of these scanners?
Or
Or do you have a scanner you can recommend for under 200
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
It is very possible that some of the codes are from removing one of the EBTCM fuses...
The DTCs pertaining to Data/ Communications are quite possibly from this.
Checking for "U" codes would help determine this.
The other DTCs that pertain to wheel-speed and steering wheel position, should not have anything at all to due with a removed fuse.
I can not recommend an inexpensive scanner that will read modules, other than the PCM. Sorry.
I would post a thread in one of the other forums; asking about scanners for the other modules in a vehicle.
I am fortunate enough to own and use the GM MDI, and access TIS2, Engineer-Information, and Service-Information.
The DTCs pertaining to Data/ Communications are quite possibly from this.
Checking for "U" codes would help determine this.
The other DTCs that pertain to wheel-speed and steering wheel position, should not have anything at all to due with a removed fuse.
I can not recommend an inexpensive scanner that will read modules, other than the PCM. Sorry.
I would post a thread in one of the other forums; asking about scanners for the other modules in a vehicle.
I am fortunate enough to own and use the GM MDI, and access TIS2, Engineer-Information, and Service-Information.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Pretty much every year one of the 3 tool trucks will try to beat out the other 2 tool salesmen for a year of "All Data" type subscription.
I switch between Snapon, Matco, and Mac every year.
I have to use this for anything non-GM or over 10 years old.
I switch between Snapon, Matco, and Mac every year.
I have to use this for anything non-GM or over 10 years old.