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4L60e front pump failure

Old Feb 24, 2021 | 05:03 PM
  #21  
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I have heard of nechanics shaving 10-thousands or more off a pump half to get a good smooth and flat surface. However, it is then also necessary to shave the same amount out of the rotor valley (or whatever you call it) so that the clearance between the vanes and the pump housing halves remains the same. Alternatively a narrower rotor and vanes might be available; not sure how common that is. A premium builder I visited shaved both the pump halves and had a tool to shave out the rotor valley by the properly amount.
Perhaps MaroonMonster can tell us what the rotor/vane clearance is supposed to be, and how readily available narrower rotors and vanes are.
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Old Feb 24, 2021 | 07:08 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by mrvedit
I have heard of nechanics shaving 10-thousands or more off a pump half to get a good smooth and flat surface. However, it is then also necessary to shave the same amount out of the rotor valley (or whatever you call it) so that the clearance between the vanes and the pump housing halves remains the same. Alternatively a narrower rotor and vanes might be available; not sure how common that is. A premium builder I visited shaved both the pump halves and had a tool to shave out the rotor valley by the properly amount.
Perhaps MaroonMonster can tell us what the rotor/vane clearance is supposed to be, and how readily available narrower rotors and vanes are.
The stator-support side of the pump is junk... and the cover side is not worth machining.
Replacements are inexpensive, plentiful, will provide healthy pump operation, TCC and Pressure-Regulator valve-train that are not worn, and fresh stator-support splines.

When we (GM) originally designed and produced these parts, the rotors and slides were selective (for the THM200-4R and THM700-R4). We produced them in 5 different sizes/ thicknesses.
The thicknesses were of the following ranges:
1. =0.7066" - 0.7071"
2. =0.7071" - 0.7076"
3. =0.7076" - 0.7081"
4. =0.7081" - 0.7086"
5. =0.7086" - 0.7091"
These were the original 7-Vane Rotors and Slides. (I do recommend using a 7-Vane Rotor if the engine used is revving 6,500+ RPM.)

Currently the pump Rotors and Slides are not really offered in different sizes... But they do vary in size... They usually measure between 0.7070" - 0.7080"

When I raise line-pressure in these units (THM200-4R and THM700-R4= approx. 290 - 300 Psi and 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E= approx. 240 - 250 Psi), I aim for 0.0020" for the Rotor and 0.0030" for the slide.
I aim for a tight 0.0015" Vane to Rotor-Slot clearance.

I would also recommend swapping out the 13-Vane Rotor in a 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E to a 10-Vane Rotor, when having a "Performance" engine in front of the transmission (Not revving past 6,200 RPM).

Lastly, I do NOT recommend that anyone spend their $$$ on a Billet-Steel pump Rotor...
A stock pump Rotor should not be breaking.
If it does break, then there is an issue with clearances or alignment... These rotors do not break from Horse-Power/ Torque.
I have stock 7-Vane Rotors living perfectly fine with engines making 1,200 HP and turning 7,500 RPM.
I do however recommend replacing the stock pump Rings for a pair of TransGo or "UnBreakable-rings".

Last edited by vorteciroc; Feb 25, 2021 at 01:45 AM.
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Old Feb 24, 2021 | 07:57 PM
  #23  
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I also wanted to say that there is a replacement stator-support side of the pump available with an actual Heat-Treated Stator-Support Tube.
This is GM part #24236486.
It is sold "Complete" with new TCC valve-train, PR valve-train, Boost valve-train, seals, ISS dummy-plug, pump-bolts, Etc...
It is for the 300mm style Input-Shaft with Input-Speed Sensor Reluctor-Teeth.

If you have a 300mm style Input-Shaft without the ISS Reluctor-Teeth...
You will have to get an After-Market or GM Input-Shaft with the ISS Reluctor-Teeth and install the ISS Dummy-Plug Included with GM #24236486.

GM part #24243749 is the front side of the Pump-Assembly with matching passages.
It is sold "Complete" with new Rotor, Vanes, Slide, Slide-Spring, seals, pump-bolts, Etc...
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Old Feb 24, 2021 | 08:15 PM
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Vorteciroc, thank you for the additional info and especially the part numbers. I and perhaps a few others didn't know that brand new ACDelco parts like this were still available.

GM part #24236486 is currently $113 on Amazon
GM part #24243749 is currently $163 on Amazon
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Old Feb 24, 2021 | 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvedit
Vorteciroc, thank you for the additional info and especially the part numbers. I and perhaps a few others didn't know that brand new ACDelco parts like this were still available.

GM part #24236486 is currently $113 on Amazon
GM part #24243749 is currently $163 on Amazon
You are, as always Most Welcome!

...and Thank You.
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 04:16 AM
  #26  
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ok....we had 7 vane...10 vane...13 vane....rotors....so the best is?
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 07:32 AM
  #27  
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Depends on the application
stock 10 vane is usually the best go-to
For customers that regularly spin 6500 plus, they get a 7 vane
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mrvedit
GM part #24243749 is currently $163 on Amazon
Just FWIW, this pump cover does not have the o-ring groove around the outside.
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 09:00 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Dynamic396
Just FWIW, this pump cover does not have the o-ring groove around the outside.
EDIT: I am correcting my earlier post using info from later posts, some of which I have edited or deleted for brevity.

GM part #24243749 is for later 2004 or 2005+ 4L60E/4L65E which use a metal clad seal on the case into which the pump seals.
GM part #24230110 is for earlier 4L60E which use a o-ring which fits into a grove around the pump to seal against the case.

Note that ISS (Input Speed Sensors) came out a bit later, e.g. some 2006 and many/most 2007 models.
Therefore, some 2004 or 2005 may have the metal clad seal but still be pre-ISS. (So many incompatible versions and parts for the 4L60E.)

As Vorteciroc wrote, the GM part #24236486 is for ISS models. The ISS and non-ISS input shafts are different - besides the ISS reluctor teeth, the teflon seals are also in a different position.

Last edited by mrvedit; Mar 1, 2021 at 03:44 PM.
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 09:21 AM
  #30  
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Yes. I believe that the 24230110 number does have the o-ring groove.

You were not wrong in what you posted. The two part numbers that you listed are indeed intended to go together. I just wanted to point out that the cover did not have an o-ring groove to maybe help someone avoid a pump cover/case mismatch.

Last edited by mrvedit; Feb 28, 2021 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Quoted an incorrect statement of mine
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 12:07 PM
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The pump halves that I posted use the metal-clad seal to the case... not the older style lathe-cut seal on the pump.
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 01:14 PM
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The Late design metal-clad seals were phased in over the 2004 and 2005 model years.

Any cores that are older than this would have used the Early design "Lathe-cut/ Square-cut" seal around the pump assembly.
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 02:15 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by vorteciroc
The Late design metal-clad seals were phased in over the 2004 and 2005 model years.

Any cores that are older than this would have used the Early design "Lathe-cut/ Square-cut" seal around the pump assembly.
Beat me to it. This is 100% correct. The lathe cut "o-ring" style were used through 2003, and some early 2004 (from my experience). The later ones used the large metal clad seal.
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Old Feb 25, 2021 | 10:05 PM
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From everything you guys have said I’m just going to assume the front pump was improperly set up. I do know that the company claims they resurface the pump halves. Hopefully they got it right this time.
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Old Feb 27, 2021 | 04:35 PM
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So the change to the metal clad seal on the case was phased in around 2004/2005 a year before the IIS came out, OR did they both come out at the same time?

Last edited by mrvedit; Feb 28, 2021 at 12:16 PM.
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Old Feb 27, 2021 | 05:09 PM
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The seal change was earlier than the change over to ISS.
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 01:43 PM
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I know this thread is old and im just pointing out what ive seen. I just disassembled a reman from gm that has their reman sticker on it and serv stamped valve body. It had a iss style 05up pump cover(short boost valve), iss Style stator with dummy plug, older pump half with oring. I got it as a core so im not sure what it was pulled out for it didnt seem as if it had many miles on it. Was this a mistake on the tech at gm or is this common practice?

mrvedit, I have noticed that you have for a long while you go
out of your way to help people, Just speaking for myself, there has been countless times youve indirectly kept me out of trouble or lead me in the right direction when i was having trouble. Mixing a iss pump with 04 and below imput shaft is one example. Thank you!
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Old Mar 29, 2022 | 08:12 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by vorteciroc
The stator-support side of the pump is junk... and the cover side is not worth machining.
Replacements are inexpensive, plentiful, will provide healthy pump operation, TCC and Pressure-Regulator valve-train that are not worn, and fresh stator-support splines.

When we (GM) originally designed and produced these parts, the rotors and slides were selective (for the THM200-4R and THM700-R4). We produced them in 5 different sizes/ thicknesses.
The thicknesses were of the following ranges:
1. =0.7066" - 0.7071"
2. =0.7071" - 0.7076"
3. =0.7076" - 0.7081"
4. =0.7081" - 0.7086"
5. =0.7086" - 0.7091"
These were the original 7-Vane Rotors and Slides. (I do recommend using a 7-Vane Rotor if the engine used is revving 6,500+ RPM.)

Currently the pump Rotors and Slides are not really offered in different sizes... But they do vary in size... They usually measure between 0.7070" - 0.7080"

When I raise line-pressure in these units (THM200-4R and THM700-R4= approx. 290 - 300 Psi and 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E= approx. 240 - 250 Psi), I aim for 0.0020" for the Rotor and 0.0030" for the slide.
I aim for a tight 0.0015" Vane to Rotor-Slot clearance.

I would also recommend swapping out the 13-Vane Rotor in a 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E to a 10-Vane Rotor, when having a "Performance" engine in front of the transmission (Not revving past 6,200 RPM).

Lastly, I do NOT recommend that anyone spend their $$$ on a Billet-Steel pump Rotor...
A stock pump Rotor should not be breaking.
If it does break, then there is an issue with clearances or alignment... These rotors do not break from Horse-Power/ Torque.
I have stock 7-Vane Rotors living perfectly fine with engines making 1,200 HP and turning 7,500 RPM.
I do however recommend replacing the stock pump Rings for a pair of TransGo or "UnBreakable-rings".
I recall Rock Auto listed somewhere around 4 or more thicknesses of 13-vane rotors and slides... they also had some that had a mark or dimple that you used specifically together... or not with part # so&so...j
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