4l60e input drum CARNAGE
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
Oh No
Better put a stupid sleeve on the piece of junk.
get a good drum and install as is.
You'll get to reading about the sonnax sleeves, and think it's your savior.
it's not
You're more likely to cause damage during the pressing on of the sleeve...take that times 2 if you use their new sleeve that goes down on a lower area of the drum
That 2nd sleeve sonnax released basically confirms what I've said in many threads. The original sleeve doesn't actually fix any problem. It just moves it.
Better put a stupid sleeve on the piece of junk.
get a good drum and install as is.
You'll get to reading about the sonnax sleeves, and think it's your savior.
it's not
You're more likely to cause damage during the pressing on of the sleeve...take that times 2 if you use their new sleeve that goes down on a lower area of the drum
That 2nd sleeve sonnax released basically confirms what I've said in many threads. The original sleeve doesn't actually fix any problem. It just moves it.
I have used the Sonnax overrun sleeve in about a dozen units. So far they have held up. I have read mixed reviews. Where do you notice problems with the sleeves, upon installation? I did see that they are releasing the forward sleeve. On another note, what are your thoughts on the 4L79 input drums? I have one on the road that seems to be doing well. I like them over the Sonnax input drums.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
I have used no sleeve at all in over 100 units that are holding up well
Lack of failure after install of the sleeve doesn't prove much when there are plenty of instances of no failure without the sleeve
The sonnax drums with bolt on retainer, and the 4l79 drums with screw on retainer...are both factory drums that get modified. So for the case of spline blowout...no different vs factory.
I've used both. They're both nice.
The 4l79 unit has a larger OD friction which is a nice touch for added capacity but often it's unnecessary and more focus should be given to shift timing vs overall capacity. But I digress.
Lack of failure after install of the sleeve doesn't prove much when there are plenty of instances of no failure without the sleeve
The sonnax drums with bolt on retainer, and the 4l79 drums with screw on retainer...are both factory drums that get modified. So for the case of spline blowout...no different vs factory.
I've used both. They're both nice.
The 4l79 unit has a larger OD friction which is a nice touch for added capacity but often it's unnecessary and more focus should be given to shift timing vs overall capacity. But I digress.
I have used no sleeve at all in over 100 units that are holding up well
Lack of failure after install of the sleeve doesn't prove much when there are plenty of instances of no failure without the sleeve
The sonnax drums with bolt on retainer, and the 4l79 drums with screw on retainer...are both factory drums that get modified. So for the case of spline blowout...no different vs factory.
I've used both. They're both nice.
The 4l79 unit has a larger OD friction which is a nice touch for added capacity but often it's unnecessary and more focus should be given to shift timing vs overall capacity. But I digress.
Lack of failure after install of the sleeve doesn't prove much when there are plenty of instances of no failure without the sleeve
The sonnax drums with bolt on retainer, and the 4l79 drums with screw on retainer...are both factory drums that get modified. So for the case of spline blowout...no different vs factory.
I've used both. They're both nice.
The 4l79 unit has a larger OD friction which is a nice touch for added capacity but often it's unnecessary and more focus should be given to shift timing vs overall capacity. But I digress.
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
I disagree on the 4L79 Drum (although I preferred the earlier units that used THM350 Frictions)...
I very much want that added Clutch Surface Area...
I mean compare a Stock 6-Clutch 3-4 Stack to that of the Reverse-Input Clutch!
We can easily alter the shift timing with the Separator Plate (everything else in the recipe being consistent).
I very much want that added Clutch Surface Area...
I mean compare a Stock 6-Clutch 3-4 Stack to that of the Reverse-Input Clutch!
We can easily alter the shift timing with the Separator Plate (everything else in the recipe being consistent).
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
I disagree on the 4L79 Drum (although I preferred the earlier units that used THM350 Frictions)...
I very much want that added Clutch Surface Area...
I mean compare a Stock 6-Clutch 3-4 Stack to that of the Reverse-Input Clutch!
We can easily alter the shift timing with the Separator Plate (everything else in the recipe being consistent).
I very much want that added Clutch Surface Area...
I mean compare a Stock 6-Clutch 3-4 Stack to that of the Reverse-Input Clutch!
We can easily alter the shift timing with the Separator Plate (everything else in the recipe being consistent).
I've put over 700hp through a stock drum and stock frictions many times but the added friction capacity is a nice touch and adds to the life of the unit
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
The new units use a friction with the same dimensions as a TH350 friction, but the inner spline is made to match the 4l60e hub. So that you don't have to machine the hub or have Mason machine one for you at additional cost.
I've put over 700hp through a stock drum and stock frictions many times but the added friction capacity is a nice touch and adds to the life of the unit
I've put over 700hp through a stock drum and stock frictions many times but the added friction capacity is a nice touch and adds to the life of the unit
But withe the THM350 Frictions, I had choices of which Frictions I wanted to use.
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,047
Likes: 714
From: Poplarville, MS
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
If your Leak-Test shows good, do NOT remove the Input-Shaft.
If you have a leak, or a broken Shaft, or need to upgrade in strength...
The Drum must be properly supported for BOTH the removal of the Shaft, and the Installation of the Shaft.
If you have a leak, or a broken Shaft, or need to upgrade in strength...
The Drum must be properly supported for BOTH the removal of the Shaft, and the Installation of the Shaft.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
I support mason supplying an easier solution for the home jobber that won't have a mill to modify the hub
I've installed ALOT of reinforcement sleeves. I've never had an input drum fail with a sleeve. I have had several split that did not have a sleeve. I 100% believe that its extra insurance. Is it the end all? Obviously not, after seeing the pic posted above. However, I have no doubt in my mind that I could easily split the hub in that drum without a sleeve if it were in my car. My setup is tuned to perfection I feel like in regards to shift timing, shift pressure and torque management. But no doubt, I'd split that thing without the ring.
I feel like this kid of breakage could happen if the endplay is too tight. Or maybe something in the trans or convertor was "walking". Maybe the "flex" plate was flexing too much.
I look at this a couple different ways. 1) the splined area that splits, certainly has to be weaker than the area shown above thats broken. 2) I install the input shafts with sleeve retainer. I feel like the sleeve retainer adds even more strength to it. I bet I'd bust the whole hub out of the drum before i'd break the part illustrated.
Would be nice if Sonnax would have redesigned the drum and changed how the 3-4 are applied, instead of using a flimsy stamped steel basket with fingers on it that relies on bends for strength. Other areas that could be improved but if they made a billet drum with redesigned (whatever) it would probably cost $1500-$2000.....and likely not be a hot seller.
I feel like this kid of breakage could happen if the endplay is too tight. Or maybe something in the trans or convertor was "walking". Maybe the "flex" plate was flexing too much.
I look at this a couple different ways. 1) the splined area that splits, certainly has to be weaker than the area shown above thats broken. 2) I install the input shafts with sleeve retainer. I feel like the sleeve retainer adds even more strength to it. I bet I'd bust the whole hub out of the drum before i'd break the part illustrated.
Would be nice if Sonnax would have redesigned the drum and changed how the 3-4 are applied, instead of using a flimsy stamped steel basket with fingers on it that relies on bends for strength. Other areas that could be improved but if they made a billet drum with redesigned (whatever) it would probably cost $1500-$2000.....and likely not be a hot seller.
I have used the Sonnax overrun sleeve in about a dozen units. So far they have held up. I have read mixed reviews. Where do you notice problems with the sleeves, upon installation? I did see that they are releasing the forward sleeve. On another note, what are your thoughts on the 4L79 input drums? I have one on the road that seems to be doing well. I like them over the Sonnax input drums.
what forward sleeve are you referring to?