4L60E Swap to 4L70E Reprogram or Retune Required?
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Teching In
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4L60E Swap to 4L70E Reprogram or Retune Required? I have a 2000 Silverado 4X4 with 300,000 miles. The transmission is slipping and the rear main seal is leaking.
I have a GM Performance Parts 4L70E transmission that I just purchased (p/n 19368612). It has the 15 pin main connection. My original 4L60E should have a 13 pin connection. My understanding is that the different number of pins should not be a problem, as the two additional pins are for an Input Speed Sensor that the original control modules would not have used (ISS signal goes nowhere, but does not cause any problems or codes as the control modules won't expect that signal).
Another difference is that the 4L70E does not have a 3-2 downshift solenoid. Will that throw a code (Code 84 3-2 downshift solenoid failure)? If it will, can the control module be reprogrammed to prevent the code?
I have a GM Performance Parts 4L70E transmission that I just purchased (p/n 19368612). It has the 15 pin main connection. My original 4L60E should have a 13 pin connection. My understanding is that the different number of pins should not be a problem, as the two additional pins are for an Input Speed Sensor that the original control modules would not have used (ISS signal goes nowhere, but does not cause any problems or codes as the control modules won't expect that signal).
Another difference is that the 4L70E does not have a 3-2 downshift solenoid. Will that throw a code (Code 84 3-2 downshift solenoid failure)? If it will, can the control module be reprogrammed to prevent the code?
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From: Roxana, IL
What makes you think that they eliminated the 3-2 Downshift solenoid? I cannot imagine that GM Performance would eliminate a solenoid that may cause a code reporting issue. If they did, it's an easy tune fix.
They did not eliminate the 3-2 downshift solenoid until the internal mode switch in the 2009 model year.The case connector was given a 17 pin set up with a blue pass through connector. So if the case pass through is a 15-pin black connector you should have a 3-2 downshift solenoid. Use an ohm meter between Pin "E" & PIN "S" it should be between 20-30 ohms.
you are correct the 13 pin harness end will plug in and pins 14-15 will go into empty holes.
They did not eliminate the 3-2 downshift solenoid until the internal mode switch in the 2009 model year.The case connector was given a 17 pin set up with a blue pass through connector. So if the case pass through is a 15-pin black connector you should have a 3-2 downshift solenoid. Use an ohm meter between Pin "E" & PIN "S" it should be between 20-30 ohms.
you are correct the 13 pin harness end will plug in and pins 14-15 will go into empty holes.
Thread Starter
Teching In
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Tranzman-
Thanks for the response and the pdf. Very helpful!
If I understand you correctly, a 4L70E with a 15 pin connector will have the 3-2 downshift solenoid? Keep in mind, I am not only changing from 13 pin to 15 pin but also from a 4L60E to a 4L70E. My understanding is that all 4L70E’s did NOT have the 3-2 downshift solenoid. Am I mistaken?
Thanks for the response and the pdf. Very helpful!
If I understand you correctly, a 4L70E with a 15 pin connector will have the 3-2 downshift solenoid? Keep in mind, I am not only changing from 13 pin to 15 pin but also from a 4L60E to a 4L70E. My understanding is that all 4L70E’s did NOT have the 3-2 downshift solenoid. Am I mistaken?
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From: Roxana, IL
Tranzman-
Thanks for the response and the pdf. Very helpful!
If I understand you correctly, a 4L70E with a 15 pin connector will have the 3-2 downshift solenoid? Keep in mind, I am not only changing from 13 pin to 15 pin but also from a 4L60E to a 4L70E. My understanding is that all 4L70E’s did NOT have the 3-2 downshift solenoid. Am I mistaken?
Thanks for the response and the pdf. Very helpful!
If I understand you correctly, a 4L70E with a 15 pin connector will have the 3-2 downshift solenoid? Keep in mind, I am not only changing from 13 pin to 15 pin but also from a 4L60E to a 4L70E. My understanding is that all 4L70E’s did NOT have the 3-2 downshift solenoid. Am I mistaken?
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From: Roxana, IL
There is a bit of confusion over the 4L65E & 4L70E transmission. Some feel that the difference is the ISS that makes it a 4L70E. That is not the case. the 4L70E had almost everything the 4L65E had plus. The GM product announcement doesn't even mention the M70 servo that they added (at least to my knowledge).
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From: Roxana, IL
Here is a link to a Sonnax article on the servo's.
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resource...for-the-4l60-e
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resource...for-the-4l60-e
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From: BERWICK PA
I would say it does have a 3-2 unless it is a 2009 up set up. If you want to be sure since it is not installed quickest take pan off and look. The 70E part as mentioned has to do with hard parts other than the ISS which would also be in the 60 and 65e 2007 up. The 2009 setup won't work with what you have at all short of changing valve body and electronics.
If it has the 3-2 then your golden to go , If its a 2009 up and has no manifold pressure switch or 3-2 you are screwed. As far as I know a trans with the manifold switch without the 3-2 does not exist but hey I do not claim to know all but have seen many many many 4l60e 4l65 and 70e .. But if it does take a picture. And as mentioned if it is missing but the manifold switch is still there take a pic then tune out the 3-2 and plug and go. But I would like to see the picture if it does exist.
Frank
If it has the 3-2 then your golden to go , If its a 2009 up and has no manifold pressure switch or 3-2 you are screwed. As far as I know a trans with the manifold switch without the 3-2 does not exist but hey I do not claim to know all but have seen many many many 4l60e 4l65 and 70e .. But if it does take a picture. And as mentioned if it is missing but the manifold switch is still there take a pic then tune out the 3-2 and plug and go. But I would like to see the picture if it does exist.
Frank
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Thread Starter
Teching In
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The color of the connector appears to be “natural”. I’ll try to attach a pic. It is 15 pin.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Enthusiast
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From: Roxana, IL
Black body with a beige insert is a 15 pin ISS that has a 3-2 solenoid. Plug it in and let it rip.
@vorteciroc did a post on the connectors in very good detail...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-pin-out.html
@vorteciroc did a post on the connectors in very good detail...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-pin-out.html
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33
Likes: 3
I would say it does have a 3-2 unless it is a 2009 up set up. If you want to be sure since it is not installed quickest take pan off and look. The 70E part as mentioned has to do with hard parts other than the ISS which would also be in the 60 and 65e 2007 up. The 2009 setup won't work with what you have at all short of changing valve body and electronics.
If it has the 3-2 then your golden to go , If its a 2009 up and has no manifold pressure switch or 3-2 you are screwed. As far as I know a trans with the manifold switch without the 3-2 does not exist but hey I do not claim to know all but have seen many many many 4l60e 4l65 and 70e .. But if it does take a picture. And as mentioned if it is missing but the manifold switch is still there take a pic then tune out the 3-2 and plug and go. But I would like to see the picture if it does exist.
Frank
If it has the 3-2 then your golden to go , If its a 2009 up and has no manifold pressure switch or 3-2 you are screwed. As far as I know a trans with the manifold switch without the 3-2 does not exist but hey I do not claim to know all but have seen many many many 4l60e 4l65 and 70e .. But if it does take a picture. And as mentioned if it is missing but the manifold switch is still there take a pic then tune out the 3-2 and plug and go. But I would like to see the picture if it does exist.
Frank
Checked in with the shop first thing this morning. Was hoping to hear something from them towards the end of the day, but they must have gotten busy. With any luck, I’ll pick up the truck tomorrow and will know the results.
I’ll post the good, bad and ugly after a few miles!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33
Likes: 3
Black body with a beige insert is a 15 pin ISS that has a 3-2 solenoid. Plug it in and let it rip.
@vorteciroc did a post on the connectors in very good detail...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-pin-out.html
@vorteciroc did a post on the connectors in very good detail...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-pin-out.html
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33
Likes: 3
It's In and Running Just heard back from the shop. The transmission is in and it's running. They want to put some more miles on it this afternoon and evening, then I'll pick it up tomorrow. Looks like this really was a plug and play swap.
Thank you @Tranzman and @FranksCustomTrans !
I'll give an update tomorrow after I pick it up and maybe after a month or so of driving. These boards have been a huge help. Great source of information and knowledge!
For what it's worth, I used a GM Performance Parts Supermatic torque converter p/n 19299802.
Thank you @Tranzman and @FranksCustomTrans !
I'll give an update tomorrow after I pick it up and maybe after a month or so of driving. These boards have been a huge help. Great source of information and knowledge!
For what it's worth, I used a GM Performance Parts Supermatic torque converter p/n 19299802.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33
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Runs Great After about 300 miles, I’m happy to report that the new set up is running great.
I’ve put about 300 miles on the truck in all modes (2 high, 4 high, 4 low, 4 auto, tow/haul, on road and off road).
Truck is running and shifting great!
Thanks to these forums. Thanks @Tranzman and @FranksCustomTrans !
I’ve put about 300 miles on the truck in all modes (2 high, 4 high, 4 low, 4 auto, tow/haul, on road and off road).
Truck is running and shifting great!
Thanks to these forums. Thanks @Tranzman and @FranksCustomTrans !