Pump tolerance 4l60
Pump tolerance 4l60 I’m building a unit for a coworker. Pump is scratched or gouged in the flat side (opposite side where the rotor goes). The rotor side is fine. I was supposed to have this unit done by this weekend, and I had a pump out another unit that I was going to use but can’t now. Long story short. I machined the pump half in my lathe and I ended up taking .015 off of it. And it’s not perfectly flat. It’s a couple thou lower in the middle. I just plastiguaged it and when tightened, it contacts. My question is, it .015 too much? The radius on the stator shaft is still .015 below the surface and I checked another pump half and it was .028. None of this should matter anyways, should it? I usually have a trans shop that I know the owner, resurface my pumps. But I don’t have time to wait. Took two weeks last time.
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From: BERWICK PA
Well if it contacted with bolts tight it will probably be ok, I might would tighten the center bolts a bit more than usual lol. I saw your post but was busy building an 80e .
Good luck curious to see how it turns out. Would not be surprised if its fine. 60E pumps are monsters . I have torn down units that were actually working perfectly with massive gouges where the rotor ridess and was like wow . In fact the one with the gouges the guy had at the track just that weekend and he said it hit every gear on the money I just had it for a refresh and he was really surprised when i called and told him he needed a pump.
Good luck curious to see how it turns out. Would not be surprised if its fine. 60E pumps are monsters . I have torn down units that were actually working perfectly with massive gouges where the rotor ridess and was like wow . In fact the one with the gouges the guy had at the track just that weekend and he said it hit every gear on the money I just had it for a refresh and he was really surprised when i called and told him he needed a pump.
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Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; Dec 18, 2023 at 11:27 AM.
Well if it contacted with bolts tight it will probably be ok, I might woull tighten the center bolts a bit more than usual lol. I saw your post but was busy building an 80e .
Good luck curious to see how it turns out. Would not be surprised if its fine. 60E pumps are monsters . I have tormned down units that were actually working perfectly with massive gouges where the rotor ride and was like wow . In fact the one with the gouges they guy had at the track just that weekend and he said it hit every gear on the money I just had it for a refresh and he was really surprised when i called and told him he needed a pump.
Good luck curious to see how it turns out. Would not be surprised if its fine. 60E pumps are monsters . I have tormned down units that were actually working perfectly with massive gouges where the rotor ride and was like wow . In fact the one with the gouges they guy had at the track just that weekend and he said it hit every gear on the money I just had it for a refresh and he was really surprised when i called and told him he needed a pump.
hey thanks. You know, I never even checked one pump I’ve ever used for flatness except this one. I put a straight edge across it and used feeler gauges. When I put it together the rotor felt normal and didn’t rattle around so I’m sure it’s good. Only thing I’m kinda concerned with is I had to machine .015 off the flat side of the housing. Shouldn’t hurt anything tho. And yep, I righted the pump bolts a little more than normal. It’s a stock trailblazer inline (5cyl?) motor so it’s nothing special power wise. Just a stock but slightly improved rebuild. I do gpz 3-4’s in everything, wide band with new drum, metal accumulators, high energy clutch, beast shell, and press the input shaft out and loctite sleeve retainer when putting it back out.
id like to point out, my thought is, I’d bet most builders premature failures are caused by the input shaft leaking. I had one fall out when taking apart, another one I pumped the press one time and it fell out and this one I’m building now, barely had any resistance when I pressed it out. I probably couple have tapped it out easily with a wooden dowel and hammer. Not good. More people need to get in the habit of pressing every input shaft out and loctiting it back in. I’ll never skip that step after what I’ve seen in the past.
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Joined: Mar 2023
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From: BERWICK PA
hey thanks. You know, I never even checked one pump I’ve ever used for flatness except this one. I put a straight edge across it and used feeler gauges. When I put it together the rotor felt normal and didn’t rattle around so I’m sure it’s good. Only thing I’m kinda concerned with is I had to machine .015 off the flat side of the housing. Shouldn’t hurt anything tho. And yep, I righted the pump bolts a little more than normal. It’s a stock trailblazer inline (5cyl?) motor so it’s nothing special power wise. Just a stock but slightly improved rebuild. I do gpz 3-4’s in everything, wide band with new drum, metal accumulators, high energy clutch, beast shell, and press the input shaft out and loctite sleeve retainer when putting it back out.
id like to point out, my thought is, I’d bet most builders premature failures are caused by the input shaft leaking. I had one fall out when taking apart, another one I pumped the press one time and it fell out and this one I’m building now, barely had any resistance when I pressed it out. I probably couple have tapped it out easily with a wooden dowel and hammer. Not good. More people need to get in the habit of pressing every input shaft out and loctiting it back in. I’ll never skip that step after what I’ve seen in the past.
id like to point out, my thought is, I’d bet most builders premature failures are caused by the input shaft leaking. I had one fall out when taking apart, another one I pumped the press one time and it fell out and this one I’m building now, barely had any resistance when I pressed it out. I probably couple have tapped it out easily with a wooden dowel and hammer. Not good. More people need to get in the habit of pressing every input shaft out and loctiting it back in. I’ll never skip that step after what I’ve seen in the past.
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Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
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Crazy as it sounds I dont use loctite because of the way it hardens or rather does not till certain conditions are met , I use super glue gel . Also a cynacrilic except it hardes in the presense of air and with experements I did in early days with it I found it seals better, The shaft will not come back out even when heated it will literally bring aluminum out with it. But you have to be fast as its starts hardening imediately , Yes I know ill probably get crap from someone but it works. Now try and experement put some loctite on a slab of your bench, Come back in a week, Tell me what you find.
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From: BERWICK PA
maybe you are using a different loctite than I am. I use sleeve retainer. It’s usually permatex brand but I just bought a big bottle of loctite 638. I wouldn’t just use regular red loctite on this. It will cure in open air very slowly. But when it’s in a situation when oxygen is low, it cures quickly. I’ve had to separate a shaft before after doing it and I had to heat it up and was a pain to remove. I build high end rc boats from time to time and the loctite will hold a flex shaft in a stub under the power of a 10+hp electric motor. There’s not much for it to grab in that situation so I know it’s some seriously strong stuff.
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@Kfxguy I had a similar question on the last unit I did when bench air checking the pump, reverse drum, and input drum as an assembly on the bench. I noticed very slight bubbles coming out between the halves when air was applied and I dont remember ever seeing this on previous builds. It was suggested when the pump is torqued then installed and bolted/torqued in the case it will get it a bit more squeeze then also. And he was right......like usual lol
Last edited by 2BFAST; Dec 18, 2023 at 07:55 AM.
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Verdad Gallardo @Kfxguy I had a similar question on the last unit I did when bench air checking the pump, reverse drum, and input drum as an assembly on the bench. I noticed very slight bubbles coming out between the halves when air was applied and I dont remember ever seeing this on previous builds. It was suggested when the pump is torqued then installed and bolted/torqued in the case it will get it a bit more squeeze then also. And he was right......like usual lol
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The green loctite shaft retainers are anerobic
AKA they cure best in the absence of air.
They are rated for .005-.010 gap fill even.
No 60e shaft should be more than .005-.010 gap fill as that would make it a "slip fit"
You can be confident, that if using a loctite 638 or 648 that it will seal absolutely no problem.
It's cured by the time you get the drum out of the press!
Ive found it to be the absolute best retaining compound for any shaft/press fit.
Works great on splines too.
I do not use it this way...but just giving an example.
I've taken th400's apart where someone used green loctite on the sun gear shaft to the direct drum spline. This is a very easy slip fit spline connection.
And the loctite setup so strong I had to hammer the sun tube out of the drum spline.
So you can have confidence that it'll setup no problem.
AKA they cure best in the absence of air.
They are rated for .005-.010 gap fill even.
No 60e shaft should be more than .005-.010 gap fill as that would make it a "slip fit"
You can be confident, that if using a loctite 638 or 648 that it will seal absolutely no problem.
It's cured by the time you get the drum out of the press!
Ive found it to be the absolute best retaining compound for any shaft/press fit.
Works great on splines too.
I do not use it this way...but just giving an example.
I've taken th400's apart where someone used green loctite on the sun gear shaft to the direct drum spline. This is a very easy slip fit spline connection.
And the loctite setup so strong I had to hammer the sun tube out of the drum spline.
So you can have confidence that it'll setup no problem.
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Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
I’m building a unit for a coworker. Pump is scratched or gouged in the flat side (opposite side where the rotor goes). The rotor side is fine. I was supposed to have this unit done by this weekend, and I had a pump out another unit that I was going to use but can’t now. Long story short. I machined the pump half in my lathe and I ended up taking .015 off of it. And it’s not perfectly flat. It’s a couple thou lower in the middle. I just plastiguaged it and when tightened, it contacts. My question is, it .015 too much? The radius on the stator shaft is still .015 below the surface and I checked another pump half and it was .028. None of this should matter anyways, should it? I usually have a trans shop that I know the owner, resurface my pumps. But I don’t have time to wait. Took two weeks last time.
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook