Yours I would fully expect to be agressive as its a stage 3 with a superior billet second servo with no apply to release size differential. So basically max 2nd apply area possible and virtualy 0 2-3 accumulation. So yes expected to be a bit on the agressive side .

 

no complaints from me, my transmission hasn't given me any issues. If only I could say the same about my engine id be in good shape. Dealing with some valve train issues atm.

 

Sorry to hear on engine , With performance cars its always something, Seems you get something right and may as well say NEXT? LOL.

 

either a lifter issues or oil starvation, im getting a tapping after wot pull but it goes away within a few minutes. Everything in long block is brand new.

 

Not an engine guy but built a few in my day and mine in Impala , Sounds like lifter collapse broken spring inside.

 

brand new mellings jb2079 lifters and cam motion dual 660 springs

 

I was actually speaking of the little stiff spring in the lifter. At least I guess they still have them in them. Been many years since I took a lifter apart . And in fact the reason was similar to yours. we had one that would radomly clatter and then not . If you reved the engine it would clatter like hell. But once back to idle 30 seconds or so would quieten down. The Spring inside the lifter was broken. We panicked of course as this was a flat not roller and you know how that can go with wear in of a new lifter on a cam that had already had a wear in startup run. In fact it was several days after the build of driving the clatter started. So rather than replace the lifter we bought a new one, took it apart , stole the spring and put in the unit with broken spring, Reinstalled and was all good from then on .
The tricky part of it all , being flat tappet it had no retainer so rather then removing the intake we used magnet stick and this grabber thing and manuvered the lifted out and back in via the drain back holes at end or heads, They was just enough room as my friend was kinda a OCD and when he was getting heads ready he ground all the flash arround the holes away . Big block chevy if i remember correctly. Was 40 years ago lol.

 

that could possibly be what im experiencing, tricky part is trying to figure out which one it is because it doesnt last long at all. I initially thought it was the rockers because i had one with some play in it so i did a CHE trunnion upgrade and its been driving well since but the other day a hellcat pulled up beside me so I had to show him the old silverado would embarrass that new high dollar car and then after is when I heard the noise again but by the time I made it home which was right around the corner the noise was gone. And with an ls as you know you have to pull the heads to change the lifter and I dont want to guess and change the wrong one. Tomorrow im going to pull the valve covers and see if i can figure it out and if I can't find it then im going to take it my buddies house because he has a dyno at his house, my hopes is I can put it on the dyno and get it to make the noise and then hurry and shut it down and see if I can find it that way.

 

OP, I would check u-joints and lash in the rear end. have had a few vehicles over the years that under certain throttle conditions (usually lifting the throttle right before shift) that would bang/clank during the shift. not uncommon for GM rear ends for the pinion nut to back off, ive seen it twice on high milage vehicles. sounds like you've had a bunch of recent work done most likely by folks that aren't familiar with "older" vehicles. also don't discount something because it has "new parts" easy trap to fall into these days.

 

I dropped the pan and replaced the filter today. The pan had a lot of metal in after just 500 miles. The fluid draining out of the pan didn’t look too bad so I was hopeful for a second. But then I shat my pants once I had a look inside the pan.


I replaced about 6 qts of fluid and it’s at the full mark on the stick. When driving slow it seems like it shifts a little smoother going from 1st-2nd and 3-4. But it’ll still make a banging sound under the seat on a slow speed 2nd to 3rd shift. It might not be as hard or loud though. The bang only occurs when it shifts into 3rd at around 1500-1600 RPM (under 20 mph). No noises are made if the 2nd to 3rd shift happens at say 2k RPM. It doesn’t make any noses during WOT shifts either. Just at 1500-1600 rpm.

When I first got the car home from the shop it wouldn’t pull itself at idle speed in drive. I thought maybe because of the higher stall. But then one day it started pulling itself and it still will. This is just a guess but I bet the dude who put it in got the TQ converter spacing wrong, and the metal is probably coming from the splined shaft.

 

This was my speculation from the beginning; that even if the converter was correctly spaced by the time you picked it up, it may have been initially wrong when they first fired the engine and/or tried to pull the car off the lift. That's all it would take to do some amount of damage. They may have gone back in to fix their mistake, hence the reason you've been able to drive the car since that time, but if this is what happened then some amount of damage was already done.

Based on my own personal experience with nearly the same application, your car should have always pulled forward on level ground with that converter and stock idle speed. That's been my assertion from the beginning here.

 

Whats weird is that it was never brought back to the guy to be fixed. One day it just finally started pulling itself.

I wonder how long before it shts the bed?

*Edit*
Is anyone looking for a low mileage F-Body? There’s only 33k miles on the body and motor and 500 on the transmission. It shifts a little rougher than it should but it has a shift kit in it. 😂

 

the material in pan looks worse than it is because of the black finish , Its not actually bad looks to be mostly crass whick some could come from new bushings and there will be some clutch material , My own car actually had more in it. In fact what you are seeing is the sole reason most have you do the first filter change. To get that out, Though you will always see some with every change. If not then the first change would serve no purpose.
And of course as you said you have no idea if the cooler was even flushed.
I would not expect it to fail at all personally based on what I see.
Now back to the "BANG" on you gave a little more info which helps , The RPM at which is happens and the fact it does not happen at RPM above 2000.
So now I have a good theory of whats happening.
ADAPTIVES- in the tune the PCM is programs to tryand atttain a specific shift timing from comand to shift at varying speeds, throttle levels. load measurements . What you have told me is that as the RPM and throtte are higher the "bang" goes away.
Ok now here is what I think is happening, Now obvioulsy the shift will be firmer due to the shift kit. But more is going on. When a shift happens the PCM looks at the engine RPM as the note of when the shift actually occurred, However at well below stall speed and the expected slip this time will apear to happen slower and longer than the goal.
Lets say the goal is .250 but due to the stall speed it at these low RPM does not see a definative shift and sees the time at .350 or higher. The PCM sees this as slipping and raises the line presure even though its not actualy slipping to try and get that .250 time.
Now as your shift with higher throttle happens at a higher RPM AND Closer to stall speed you will have less slip (stall) so the PCM will not raise the line to compensate .
Now you might ask why in 3rd but not in second? Easy the first ration is low and (numeracaly high 3.067 ) so the RPM will be again much closer to the stall speed when it shifts . So the PCM will either no change the line to compensate or even actually lower it if the shift seems to happen faster than the .0250,
But 2nd to third iS not such a jump and 2nd os comparably much higher gears than 1st and 3rd way way higher and these low RPM shift happening well below stall speed. The PCM sees the shift time as to long by the time it sees the shift via RPM which again is the only way the PCM can determine if the shift occurred, Thus "BANG" low RPM low THROTTLE 2-3.

In any case the info you have given makes me 99 percent sure ^^ is what is happening. as you say firmer throttle higher RPM shifts no "bang " .
Now I dont think the "bang" sound is coming out of the trans itself as really IMO that woud be impossible, But the impact of this low throtte high presure shift is just jolting the drive train causing it.

This could be fixed in the tune yes, By turning off the adaptives and even if needed reducing or pulling back the line at that throttle area and RPM. But you have no access to a tune or tuning software or the ability or knowledge to upload a tune even is sent corrections.


I have to say this entire situation is frustrating to me as I can see no means to make you happy in the situation.
With a bit more mechanical skill level I would say Ill send you a VB/ PLATE with stock feeds and no overun mod which possible would mediate it but if and I am pretty sure I am right even if i sent a stock unit , It is likley this same issue would still exist with the stall you have though with smaller feeds and might be a bit less noticable .


i in earlier post offered to even swap units with you for a stock build and pay the shipping , But then again more issue to solving it as you have said and not picking I know things are tight for people same here, And you said you cannt afford to have it swapped.

And even in that scenario if and I am very sure I am I spent the morning in HP looking while it might be less notable even with a stock build The PCM would still see the same and raise line (a data log would prove this ) but that to is unavailable

So every conceivable option to solve this is unattainable .

So I am it seems left in the same boat you are ,
You have a trans you are unhappy with the way it shifts and even with my offers no ability to proceed and I am left with this thread and the only thread that makes me and the trans I built for you look bad to a broad audience and no idea of how to proceed to fix any of it .

As a general rule people expect to have tuning done with a stall To deal with variuos shifting issues such as early shifts, late shifts, eronious P0757 causing limp mode in some cars (similar to your issue , Some cars because of the way the see the higher than expected RPM will besides raising the line , Decide the shift did not happen at all and set limp mode, max line, 2nd and 3rd gear only with second only manual no 1st or 4th at all.
Trans shift timing, presure etc depends on a relationship of TPS, MAF, MAP, SPEED, RPM . Much higher than stock stall and this drastically changes that relationship .
The 4L60E does not control its line presure, shift timing or anything internally, the PCM determines all of that based again on the TPS, MAF, MAP, ENGINE RPM and SPEED so for one to shift harsh at some specific throttle and rpm means it has to be comanded to do such .

If you had HP tuners or a friend with it and credits I would say ok ill try and fox it fr you remotely but even that seems impossible

I have no idea what else to do.

One more note I also wonder if when you did not get much pull at 0 throttle or none could it have been commanded second for one reason or another and now does because conditions have changed weather- outside temp- trans temp- fluid vescosity so many variables may be why it self corrected since. Just no way to know.

I will reiterate I have NO expectation of failure of the trans. Based on what was in pan and all you have described. I would put it in my own car in a heartbeat,

Without datalogs , presure guage or tuning capability even anything its an unsolvable issue


In any case sad and frustrated I can find no means to fix this for you.

 

I hope you’re right that it’s normal. I’m too broke to have it even inspected. I’m not bashing your product. But I have a suspicion that it got installed wrong.

The first time it made the bang on the way home from the shop it was so loud that you could literally hear it from across the street. No kidding. It wasn’t subtle by any means. The loud bang is more of a clunk now. You can still hear it and feel it if you’re in the car but the neighbors can’t hear it anymore. That sound and feel one might could attribute to a shift kit. But the first loud bang was so loud that it sounded like something had broke. It was wicked loud. It wasn’t just like, “eh it’s a little rougher,” which is what it kind of is now. It was more of a, “Oh sht, did my driveshaft just fall out!?” type of noise.

When I first got it home it wouldn’t pull itself on a flat surface without giving it gas. But then one day it started to do so. Have you ever seen that happen?

This weekend was the first time that I dropped the pan and changed the filter since I was waiting to reach 500 miles to do so. But the fluid was drained and filled enough times during that 500 miles to where the bulk of the fluid was replaced several times. You’re right that I don’t think the cooler was flushed prior to the new transmission going in. That’s part of the reason that I drained and filled so many times during the 500 mile break-in period. Is that still a normal amount of metal considering that it was drained and filled numerous prior to dropping the pan? You don’t think that the input shaft is getting chewed up everytime that it runs and that’s where the metal is coming from? Thats my fear. Bad install job I’m thinking. I did do a few pan drops on the original transmission prior to having it replaced, and it never had any shiny metal “brand new” looking metal in it. It was always just dirty with gray clutch material. I never saw any metal like this in it.

If it wasn’t for the fact that it wouldn’t pull itself at idle and then all of a sudden it will, or for the first initial super loud bang when I was leaving the shop I wouldn’t be thinking that the metal was converter or input shaft related. The now not so loud 2nd to 3rd shift is “liveable.” I’m just worried that it’s has other issues going on that aren’t shift kit related.

What would be the symptoms of a converter that was installed incorrectly? Do you think that if it was going to “crap out” that it would have done so within 500 miles? FWIW the converter that I’m using is just a reworked stock converter. Some of the reviews of those that purchased it stated that they couldn’t tell the difference between it and the stock converter that they replaced. In other words that it wasn’t a “radical” enough of a stall to where it wouldn’t pull itself in gear at idle speeds. Mine wouldn’t at first and then miraculously all of a sudden it would.

I was thinkng about trying tuning to help the 2nd to 3rd shift. But after I saw what was in the pan I started thinking it’d be throwing good money after bad since I’m worried that the metal is coming from the input shaft. Is it weird or not that it used to not be able to pull itself in gear and then one day it started doing so? If do another pan drop in X amount of miles and it still has clean shiny looking metal that appears that it was freshly “shaved,” then is it time to be worried? Some of the metal shavings were fairly large. They looked like curly metal shavings. When you did the 2nd pan drop on your new trans did it look just as shitty as the first or was there less fresh metal shavings in it?

 

Honestly most every time you pull pan you are going to find some , In fact what I see in your pan on a black pan is less than expected . I see what looks to be a little brass, No chuncks and some minor clutch material , But nothing out of the ordinary , As for draining flusihing yes some would come out but some would remain and tricket out of filter or lay pan when changed and of course you will have some wear in material , Nothing IMO out of the ordinary. . So I am not concerned particulary is it was not flushed to start with it can take some time for crap to work its way from cooler through converter, and valvebody and back to pan.
The not pulling at idle well indeed if the cooler was not flushed some little something could have gotten temporarily loged someplace and maybe it was doing second gear start it worked it way through and boom fixed.
And of course the trans you replaced did not have new bushings ect.
Of interest what was the failure of the original trans ?
Oh and actually of note my first change on mine was actually WORSE as I did not note a burr on my yoke that tore the tail bushing up pretty good so I had considerable silver n gold. then noted where is came from fixed the yoke bure. changed the filter and that was 34k miles ago,
I have not done anotehr since as that what they have magnets to collect that stuff and oils been clean, Probably will do it this summer sometime.

I really do not think at this time there is any issue left that cannot be worked out with a bit of minor tuning (I will say I am not a fan of "reworked stock converter to get over a 3000 stall")
But thise are my thoughts on the matter, I think the trans if fine, Likley cooler was not flushed and maybe stuck a valve or plugged some orifce making second gear start so no movemt and whatever it was eventully cleared and I would not be worried about it, And reality, you have a warranty while true right now you cant take out and send to just have checked , But it there is if were to become a HAVE TOO.


I woulld look into the TUNE and not just for trans but you can get some impressive power/ drivabilty even on a stock car with a good tune.
I would not worry about changing fluid again till at least 20 30k miles and then yes I would expect some material . that is the reason they have filters and magnets in them to collect the little debris,
I ask about the old trans as if it was a 3-4 clutch failure that would explain the early extreme 2-3 shift again adaptives left over from previous trans and it would have gradually gotten better .

So in answer to your question, No I would not be concerned, I would drive and enjoy the car and If i could would consider an overall tune not just for trans but for over all performance whan you can afford it .

In the mean time if you do have a problem which I honestly dont expect, You know here to find me .

 

The old transmission never went out completely. When I got the car the 1st to 2nd shift was long and it just kept getting long and longer. Eventually it started to slip a little during the 1st-2nd so I decided to have it replaced. It had less than 30k miles on it but it set for an unknown amount of time. I’m guessing a decade or so.

 

The long shifts the PCM would have tried to compesate for, And that would expplain the intial extreme bangs with the new trans.
Reason explained. With no reset with scanner of tuner it would have set presures at first while like the older slipping trans over time it would settle down at least to the extent that the stall stuff I mention would have allowed. Basically the more you drove it the better it would get .

 

I don't think the "bang" is/was a tuning issue. I will again outline my personal experiences with a very similar application:

2000 WS6 Trans Am, 3.23 gears. Same model year and gear ratio as the OP.
Yank 3500 stall speed
Stock 4L60E, and then a built 4L60E by local builder FLT (FLP at the time)
Stock tuning (LS1 Edit wasn't out yet, this was ~25 years ago) other than an HPPIII for WOT shift points and fan settings

Car behaved pretty well with the 3500 stall speed and stock tuning, it pulled forward on level ground at the stock 550rpm idle speed (from day one with the 3500 stall speed). Only issue was a little idle surge when stopped in gear due to the different load of the smaller diameter, higher stall TC, and WOT shift points were a little early. There was no bang, no clunk, no pronounced issues with shifting to or from any gear at any rpm or throttle position - and that was with stock tuning. Same was true when I upgraded to a built 4L60E the following spring.

Later, I tuned the PCM myself using LS1 Edit after a cam install - but I never needed to correct anything to attain proper shift behavior at light throttle.

Having said all of that, I was under the impression that the OP had an FTI converter, something like a 3200 stall speed? I thought I read that in an earlier post. I didn't know he was using a rebuilt factory converter. If the converter is some off-the-shelf rebuilt stock piece, then I would consider it suspect (especially since it wasn't pulling forward at idle but now it is). Could be any number of issues with that converter if it's some generic stock rebuild rather than a top shelf higher stall like an FTI, Yank, etc. This is new information of which I wasn't aware prior so, at this point, my guess is either that there was an install mishap or that the generic converter is junk and causing some issues.

But, I will go on record saying that I do not think the problem is tuning related. Too many folks (myself included) used to put 3000-4500 stall speed converters (top shelf stuff from Yank, Vig, etc.) in these cars back before we even had proper "custom tuning", and I don't recall ever hearing of anyone (myself included) having issues with low speed shift "bang" from stock tuning. There would be other issues related to idle surge, or lock-up issues if you had a cam, or "limp mode"/codes (usually only with the more sensitive 2001+ PCMs and stall speeds in excess of 3500rpm), but never anything like the OP is describing. It should always have pulled forward on level ground in this application, and nothing should *need* to be adjusted in the tune to prevent loud banging which can be heard outside of the car. Tuning might help to cover an issue, but it's not the source of the problem here IMO.

To be clear, I'm not in any way pointing a finger at Frank or his trans. Personally, I suspect something happened during the install, and/or that converter might be junk if it's just a stock rebuild (which is not what I understood it to be originally).

 

I don’t think that you’re grasping just how loud of a bang the initial bang was. It was loud as F and it was pretty violent. It shook the car, it wasn’t just a little “shift bump.” It was so loud that I pulled over to make sure that the driveshaft didn’t fall out. That was my initial guess as to what the bang was. The ECU was reset numerous times when the old transmission was still in and it didn’t shift any better or any worse after a reset. It was still the same ole sht.

The bang was an oh sht something broke type of bang. It wasn’t a “guy thinking the shift kit should shift as smooth as an OEM trans” type of bang.

 

Im using 3200 stall FTI Street Brawler converter which is 11 inches. After it was installed and it wouldn’t pull itself in gear I reached out to FTI asking if they thought that it should. They said yes it should be able to pull itself in gear because it’s more or less just a re-worked stock converter. They asked where the spacing was set and I said that I don’t know.

So yeah I think that something went wrong with the install. I guess I’m just going to drive it here and there and hope that it doesn’t break. I bet it will at some point though. FTI Street Brawler