Hey guys, here's the deal. I feel like a TC will soon be one of my next modifications. I've done quite a bit of searching, trying to take in alot of information about the subject. Many things are still a little fuzzy to me so I thought I would throw this out here. First, my car is an 02 WS6 with basic bolt-ons, and will probably stay this way for a little while. However, I do plan on doing a heads/cam package later on down the road. Please take a look at the following cosiderations:

-I'm looking at a 2800-3000 stall
-I would like to have an as close to stock feeling as possible.
-Car will not be taken to the track.
-Car will always have street tires on it.
-Future cam to have specs of (234-228, .576"-.571")

With all of the above in mind, what is your feedback on what I'm looking to do?
What STR will I want?
Will I be ok when adding the H/C package later?
What tuning will I have to have done? (Please tell me anything you can think of)
How will I need to adjust shift points or downshifts? (Please any info with part throttle or WOT)
How will I need to adjust idle?

Basically, I would like for you to think of it as that you are trying to get this A4 to run next to an M6, and feel somewhat stock. I appreciate any information anyone has to throw out.

 

No info yet??

 

First off, you'll probably want more than 2800-3000. I have a tci 3500 (wish I had 3800 or 4000), not exactly stock driving, but it's pretty close. I believe there are some converters out there of the same stall speed that will feel more "stockish" but will cost more. 3000 stall is going to be considered too low for just about any h/c package. Your cam is not small and will probably not make that great of power down low. My converter is 2.5 str and is fine for regular driving, but **** for traction when launching hard (regular street tires & almost stock suspension). I don't think you're going to have much traction regardless of str on street tires without quite a bit of suspension modding.
As far as tuning you will almost certianly have to get torque management edited (note EDITED, not deleted). You may have to have shift points changed depending on how high of a stall you get. With my 3500 I have bounced off the rev limiter only one time in the six months I've had it. This becomes more critical the looser the converter is.
As far a s adjusting idle, I haven't done any, but I do get a little bit of surging at idle when the engine is cold. I have a friend who turned the idle screw out a bit because he had worse surging than I.
Good luck, hope this helps. Do some searching, lots of good info here...

 

According to Yank's website their Y3000 flash stalls to 3400 on the Dyno. Thats with their torquer cam. For a stock feeling ride and daily driving a 10" 3000 would be hard to beat. Here in OZ some of our fastest bolt-ons are running 12.2 on 2800 stalls. Remember, whateve you get, you can always re-stall. I would prefer to go tighter than looser given the choice because the stock cam makes great torque down low, and with properly tuned shift points you can keep a 4500 shift extension at WOT. At least, thats what I'm aiming for.

 

Maybe the cams used in OZ are different than ours. A true 2800 stall will run much slower than a 3500 - 4000 stall in a stock F-body. The difference in a modified car with a big cam is even more dramatic.

A low STR, high efficency converter is what you are looking for. A SY 3500 meets that criteria. Find someone with a 3500 TC and test drive their car. A 3000 stall will definitely help, but it leaves most people wanting more.

 

How do you know or determine a TC's shift extension??

 

Not enough converter for that cam. MHO

 

Appreciate the info on the board. I'm not really trying to select the TC around a cam, mostly around having a close to stock feel and being able to kick a little butt. (See first post) Anyways, after calling around and describing what I'm wanting to do, several companies are steering me in the direction of a TCI SSF3000, 2.2 STR or the Vigilante 2800, 2.5 STR. First off, any opinions on these two choices? The second issue is having an idea of where to set various transmission parameters when I get it tuned.

Torque Management: Delete or edit? If edit, then how?
Raise Shift Points: 6100 rpm?
Rev Limiter: 6500 rpm
Shift Speed: ??
Shift Firmness: ??
Change Down-shift Point For 1st Gear: Will the TC take care of the dead spot or will this need to be adjusted? If so, what optimum mph would be good set this at?
Lock-Up: No lock up in 3rd, set to lock up in 4th @ 40 mph.

Are there any part throttle adjustments I would need to make?

Please help me out on any of these settings that you can offer input on. Also, on anything critical I've left out!! I hope if I get a good tuner, most of there things will be like second nature to him.

 

I have the Vig. 3000 2.5STR and it works great for me. It will flash stall to 3500-3600.
It will blow the tires off with street tires. I knew I would need a bigger stall when the head/cam happens, but far down the the road for me. If your set on the lower stall I would at least go with a TCI or Vig 3000. Your best bet is to find someone with a TC and go for a ride to see how it feels to you. Looseness is different for everyone.

 

Vig 2800 is ok for what you want. It's really a 3200 stall in disguise

 

Any thoughts on any of the tuning issues??

 

I don't think you'll get that cam to idle worth a crap with a stall that low it will surge possibly. You will most likely have bog off the line as well. Those converters are better suited for smaller cams such as 216 or 220 duration cams. But good luck to you.

 

Go with a smaller cam or a bigger stall. If it was me, (and I did) I would go with a larger stall cause a smaller cam is not an option. Best advice someone ever gave me when trying to find the right stall. Go find some freinds that have different stalls and go for a ride with them. They never stall at the speed they say they will. My 3600 stall revs up to about 2k and stays there through acceleration. It almost never flashes to 3600 unless your doing 60 on the highway.

 

I have a TCI3500 and other mods in my sig.
I can easily blow the tires off from anything 40MPH or lower
on the street. This on sticky pirelli pzero tires.
I wish I would have went with a TCI3000 instead
because I want to stay on street tires.

I have had it for about 2 months now and the slipping
is tolerable. When I first drove it I thought it was
too much slippage, but now I am OK with it. It really
stalls more around 4000 on the dyno, maybe a little higher.

I think even if I get drag radials, I will still be able
to spin them at 30MPH or lower. These pzero tires
are the stickiest I have ever had. The pick up rocks
and throw them into my wheel well all the time...the stockers
never did that. No rocks are stuck to the tread...I don't know
if the drag radials would "hold" rocks or not, I've never had
drag radials.

I do not go to the track.
This is a fun converter on the street as long as you
are careful and EASE into the throttle from a stop
or a slow roll...there is no putting the pedal to the floor
quickly and of course you can't just STOMP the pedal
to the floor...all you get is wheel spin.

For street tires I would recommend the TCI3000.
For drag radials, the TCI3500.

Since mine stalls at 4000, I'm assuming the TCI3000
will stall higher than rated also. For street driving
the 4000 is too tall. Unless you are a drag racer
and willing to put up with slipping all the time of course.
It sounds like you are not, so I would say go with
a TCI3000.

Best bet is to drive someone's car that has a TC.
Nothing better than testing out something before
you buy into it.

Good luck

 

Almost forgot...maybe "jimmyblue" will respond in here, he has a TCI3000.

 

Don't make the same mistake i made! I have a 2800 Yank, and i am regreting it now. It's a good converter for a stock feel and for a car with just bolt-ons, but as soon as u get into cam and heads your gona get problems. Like 94form2000z said, you might get problems with your idle and you are likely to get some bog, this is very very true. After i had my cam put in, i had several idle problems and i do get some bog and it's all do to the fact that i have a high lift cam with such a low stall converter. Keep your future mods in mind b/c you are going to end up spending money that you would not have had to spend. Like me.

 

My car is a daily driver. I have all the standard bolt ons: lid/filter, headers, exhaust, OD/UD pulley ahd tuning. My car has never seen the track. I keep street tires on it, not DR and I went with the SY 3500. I have never regretted it.

 

Can someone give a brief explanation as to why the TC and the cam are so inter-related? It was stated that the cam that was mentioned (234-228, .576 -.571) would be too much for a low stall (say 3000). Why would it idle like crap and bog? Onebadwedge, you have a TCI3500 and a 228 duration cam, did you have any issues. Can a good tune correct these issues?? Sorry, I'm a newb at teh TC.

 

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.


I have tuning issues. I BELIEVE it's because of the 228 cam.
I have read MANY people can "tune" a 224 and I have
been in contact with about 4 other members with a 228 cam
that have the same issues I am having.
I think the 228 cam gives more MISFIRE counts for some
reason. If this is a street car, I'd recommned a 224 or smaller.
Bigger is not better. If this is a street car, you want
TORQUE in the lower RPM. With my 228 I have less torque
in the lower RPM. However I have more HP in the higher
RPM. So if you just drive "normal", say 3000 RPM and under.
That's where I'd get a cam that has more torque down low.
Above 3000 is only on SPIRITED driving, as long as it's
higher than stock, who cares, you hardly ever drive
like this on the street, right?
This is all my opinion, you have to decide for yourself.

If you can find a cam that has a lot more torque in lower
RPM range compared to stock, that's the way to go
for a street car in my opinion. I drive my car here
over 95% of the time. I am driving a car with a cam
that makes LESS Torque compared to stock, and
I have a torque converter that slips all the way to about
2500 RPM. So I drive around 2200-2700 RPM all
the time and this is just NORMAL driving, keeping
up with traffic, no attention being drawn to myself.
I have 2 strikes against me, low torque and slipping TC.
I wish I would have got a cam that made more
torque in low RPM. Then my slipping TC would be
slightly more tolerable. However I think I would
go with the TCI3000, which really stalls around 3500RPM.
The key is to figure out what the TC REALLY stalls at,
not the "name" of it. The TCI3500 does not stall at 3500
on ANY CAR....stock or modified.

In my opinion, a street car that would be "fun" to drive
would be one that make lots of torque in low RPM, because
on the street most driving is about 1500-2500RPM just NORMAL driving.
If you are making more torque than stock, you'd be accelerating
faster even though you are at the same RPM as you were
when you had the STOCK cam. So your driving "style" wouldn't
need to change and you'd be going "faster" just driving around normal.
That would be fun.
Think of it this way. Drive around a NEON normally and at 1500-2500RPM, with it's 25 ft/lbs of torque(example figure). Now drive around a CAMARO normally at 1500-2500 RPM. Feel the difference? That's because the
CAMARO make more torque in that RPM range. Now think if you
could UP the torque in that range in your CAMARO....that's where the
fun is.
AGAIN, this is my opinion here...

PM me if you have any more questions.

 

Man I think you PM'd me the other day about this. You problem is the tune. Mine idles perfectly aside from the fact that i drilled the TB plate a bit much so I have very minor surging at startup. It doesn't do that when I am stopping or in gear. Just in Neutral. Now the one thing you state is you like the way a stock car feels. To me they are way to sluggish with a stock converter. I like the slipping. I love my PT4000 and my 228. I can take off with minimal throttle and leave everything behind effortlessly including a smaller cam and stalled car granted I get traction

There are alot bigger cams out there being tuned to purr and producing alot of torque down low. If you want torque in the mentioned RPM range (1500 - 3000) you might as well stay stock IMHO.

To the original post. I wouldn't go with less than a 3500 stall (unless VIG 3200) with that cam. The lower stall will also not help the car idle. Plus it will be boggish down low. You should jsut get a stall and see if it performs the way you want without changing cams.