From your experience with either converter. I need some more info before buying. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

 

"Yank" or "Vigilante"


History:
OK, my 2 cents.
Back in the day, ALL of us used Vigi's...and we ran low 12's to high 11's. (generally speaking) When Yank came out, there was a lot of resistance in swapping over to them. (I was one of the most vocal opponents of swapping to Yank) But the numbers the Yank cars were putting down were looking better and better. Me and Mike (yank) had a little bet and I decided to try a Yank.

I have never second guessed that decision.

RWHP, E.T., MPH, 60', every "race-track" category I can think of the Yanks dominate the Vigilantes.

Performance: (street cars)
9 of the top 10 quickest N/A internally stock LS1 F-bodies use a Yank.
The only 9 sec N/A automatic LS1? Uses a Yank.
All but one of the 10 second automatic N/A LS1's use a Yank.
Do you begin to see a pattern emerging? If you want to go the quickest you get a Yank.

The fastest N/A LS1? Uses a Yank
The fastest N/A heads-cam LS1 uses a Yank.
The fastest N/A internally stock LS1 uses a Yank


(blatant smack talking paragraph below)
Typically, the vigi's struggle to get a LOW 1.5 60's. A 1.4 60' in a Big Yank is a piece of cake and considered "normal" around here. Now we have Yanks doing 1.3's. And where is the Vig at that is cutting 1.3's? <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> I have buds who cut 1.51 and 52's with a ST3500. Jeeeze that what better than most folks with the BIG vigi's. If you want to be a middle of the pack kind of guy get a Vig. You want to shoot for the brass ring? Get a Yank.

And as an addendum for JS:
The fastest N/A, Heads and cam, STOCK untouched shortblock LS1....... used a Yank. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

(OK, no more smack talking)

Cost:
Yanks do cost more. From a little to a lot. But if you consider the materials in the different converters you can see why. Yank uses MUCH more exotic materials then the Vigi's.

Aftermarket converters and your PCM:
NO CONVERTER COMPANY IS PERFECT. Back in the day...98~99 Vigi's would unlock like mad. Folks wouldn't drive their cars to the track because the trannies wouldn't lock up. Some folks have used different sized tires, HPP3 speedometer settings and other "tricks" to get their converters to lock up. On the other hand, Yanks seem to have a problem in 2001-2002's when the PCM mistakenly believes the verter is slipping too much, it has set a trouble code in some folks cars. This is usually fixed by keeping it in 3rd and not OD.

98's had very aggressive tranny programming from GM. They have had very few of the tranny problems some of the other years have. Each year GM detuned the tranny programming a bit until the 2001/02's. (man those are some lame programs)

Ported MAF's and your PCM....the PCM sees less of a load when you use these ported ends (like coasting down a hill). This causes the PCM to ease up on the line pressure to the tranny. After a period of time. Say, 8 to 12 thousand miles or so. Your lock up clutch will begin to chatter. This is caused MAF ends sending a false signal to the PCM, it, lowering line pressure to the tranny. This takes the pressure off the clutch and allows it to slip. Glazing the surface and making it "chatter" when driven.
IT IS NOT THE CONVERTERS FAULT.
They do make an additive that will "deglaze" your lock up clutch. It takes a while but it does work. I can go into more a more detailed explanation here, but do I really need to?

Best bet is to not use ported MAF ends on your LS1. Other than that one mod.... go for it. Put some sticky tires on that bad boy and go kick some ***.

As a side note; If I was not using a Yank...I would use a Vig. The second tier converters out there, have been less than stellar performers in our applications. (IMO)

Thats my 2 cents along with MY opinons which have been proven at the track and on the street. Yours may vary.

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Raughammer ]</p>

 

Well thanks John!! I am looking at the ST3500 for my 98Z28 w/2.73's Don't laugh you have them too. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

 

John your forgetting CARTEKDave
10.98@122 running a PI 4400 in a 3450lbs car.
Heads and cam STOCK untouched shortblock and a CONSISTANT 1.44 60ft.

JS

 

You are right JS. I made a mistake. My bad.
I dont see him post often...so he slipped my mind.
JC

 

Yea Daves not a talker.He has me to do that <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> Kinda odd that a Eastern guy has a quiet mouth?But thats Dave.

No problemo Partner...

JS

 

Raughammer, very great reply. I appreciate all that info.

I have a V6 and can cut 1.80 60's all motor and can run 14.0's but my MPH is somewhat low. I have a PI 3500... I've been thinking about switching to a yank converter though, a ST3800 maybe... My PI converter hits VERY hard though (For a V6)

Yank offers so many converts though. Can anyone give us a little info on the difference between their converters?

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Magnus ]</p>

 

JS, I updated the post... "just for you" <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

"keep the shiny side up".
Roughy.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Magnus:
<strong>Yank offers so many converts though. Can anyone give us a little info on the difference between their converters?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can you be a little more specific with your question? What exaclty aer you looking for. (difference wise..size, stall, price..what?)

Have you tried http://www.converter.cc/dyno_shop.htm ?

Raughammer

 

Honestly, I wouldn't know where to begin. They offer so many names for converters.

Super, Pro, Ultra, then with those you can get them in either Thruster or Yank models.

Thats a lot of names/confusion. Its very overwhelming. I'll spend some more time Monday though looking at that page.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Raughammer:
<strong>

Ported MAF's and your PCM....the PCM sees less of a load when you use these ported ends (like coasting down a hill). This causes the PCM to ease up on the line pressure to the tranny. After a period of time. Say, 8 to 12 thousand miles or so. Your lock up clutch will begin to chatter. This is caused MAF ends sending a false signal to the PCM, it, lowering line pressure to the tranny. This takes the pressure off the clutch and allows it to slip.

Best bet is to not use ported MAF ends on your LS1. Other than that one mod.... go for it. Put some sticky tires on that bad boy and go kick some ***.


[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Raughammer ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

What about the supposedly recalibrated MAFs(Granatelli), do they create the same problem?

 

Damn Roughrammer.. how much Yank stock do you own??! <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" />

 

Hmmm, ok. I'll try and break it down...

The "Stealth" are mild converters.

A "Thruster" means it has higher stall and STR than a "Stealth"

"Torque Thruster" means it has a even higher stall and more STR. (like 3.0)

The "Yank" disignation is a middle of the road converter. Mid level STR and Stall. (2.0 STR and 3000 stall, for example)

Now your in the mid 3000 rpm range. Here you have the ST3500 and the SY3500. The ST will have more STR and the SY will have less STR.

Next up would be the Pro Yanks. These converter are still in the mid 3000 rpm range but have a longer shift extension and are used for power adder applications. These converter have the best of the best as far as internal parts. They are built to hold the added torque of nitrous and other BIG power adders.

Up next is te Pro Thrusters. These converters have high STR's and high stalls. (2.5 and at least 4000 stall)

Finally the Ultra Thruster, their claims to fame would be their super high STR, and super high
stalls. (4800ish)

So a general break down would be...(IMO)
Stealth, means low stall
Thruster, means high STR
Super, means mid level stall with low STR
Yank, is mid level stall and mid level STR
Pro means high level parts and high stall/STR
Ultra, means VERY high stall.

Campbell

 

John u r a good guy.I like your sense of humor.
Alot of people think I'm cocky and for the most part there right, but I cna tell u really know my personality and I like that very much.Your a great dude John.

Your friend and good luck in the persuit of 10.5.
JS

 

[quote]Originally posted by Dan99Hawk:
<strong>Damn Raughammer.. how much Yank stock do you own??! </strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL, I was just as enthused with the Vig's when they were on top. (whhoo weee, we had some spirited "discussions" back then)
Own Yank stock? Can ya get it? I want some!
Seriously, I am just really impressed by their products.

Campbell <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

 

So John the ST3500 would fit my car right or what?
I plan on getting the converter and cooler. Then headers LT's/y-pipe and cats and then the B1 cam.

 

here is a silly question....what does STR mean and is it better to have a high number or low number?

Many thanks guys

 

I think it is the torque multiplier.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Z-rated Mike:
<strong>here is a silly question....what does STR mean and is it better to have a high number or low number?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, STR is also called "Torque Multiplier"
Here is info from Yanks web site. (It is also on my web page too)
http://xs-fx.com/raughammer/CONVERTER.HTM
STR, more or less? It all depends on your combo and what you plan on doing with it.

Radials and Dr's? Less STR.
E.T. streets and Drags? More STR.

Thas a very simplistic answer and not entirely conclusive.... but as long as were just "generally" speaking. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

BTW, I prefer a STR of 2.5 to 2.75 for my "street/strip" cars.

Toxic, Yes, the ST3500 would be an EXCELLENT converter for your car. (IMO)

See below for Mike Senias answer;
[quote]
Stall Torque Ratio is one of the most misunderstood aspects of torque converter construction. Our competitors often call stall torque ratio: torque multiplier. The stall torque ratio is the amount of engine torque that the torque converter can multiply at a particular rpm level. By definition, stall torque ratio is when the turbine is at 0 RPMs and the converter is at maximum designed stall. This will produce a positive push on the turbine to increase the torque to the input shaft of the transmission, multiplied by the designed stall torque ratio of the torque converter. For example, a stall torque ratio of 2.0 would multiply 200 lb. ft. of engine torque to 400 lb. ft. of torque at the transmission input-shaft.

The misconception of stall torque ratio is that more must be better. This is not always the case. High stall torque ratio applications, typically are for industrial equipment or engines with limited low rpm engine torque. With high stall toque ratio converters, there are important trade-offs. What you take at one end you give up on the other. Typically, a torque converter with a very high stall torque ratio, such as 2.0-2.5, will be much less efficient above its rated stall speed. There is a sacrifice in higher rpm efficiency to achieve high stall torque ratios. That lower efficiency translates into less horsepower transmitted to the tires over an RPM range.

The problem with a high stall torque ratio converter is that it is only high while the car is not moving. Maximum stall torque ratio occurs at wide open throttle with no rotation of the transmission input shaft. As the input shaft starts to rotate with vehicle forward movement, the stall torque ratio will become non-existent much sooner than a converter of the same stall, with a lower stall torque ratio. A converter with a stall torque ratio of 2.2 for example, would display that at the starting line, but it would drop off much sooner than a converter with a lower stall torque ratio. <hr></blockquote>

Campbell

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Raughammer ]</p>

 

Now that Raughammer has covered the 10-11 second race car portion of the question, there is some food for thought in my signature. This is what happened with a Yank on a TRUE daily-driver.

And I am NOT the only one...