Advantages/Disadvantage of stall
05-19-2006, 07:34 AM
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Advantages/Disadvantage of stall I am in the process of hopefully getting a 99 Z28 with the A4 in it and I have a few ?'s. Supposedly the tc on the car is messed up so I will be putting a new one in and I was wondering if I should go ahead and get a higher stall one put it? It will be a daily driver and prolly never go to the track but i will play with it on the roads and such. I will do no more mods then intake, exhaust, and no cats so it wont be seeing unreal power and I just wanted to know what would be best for reliability and daily driving. I was thinking of a 2800 stall if I got one...please let me know guys.
05-19-2006, 11:03 AM
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Man I never thought yall would be running such high stall convertors. What is the advantage/disadvantage of a higher stall. With this being my DD i want to keep gas mileage as good as possible BTW
05-19-2006, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dirtyblackhoe
I am in the process of hopefully getting a 99 Z28 with the A4 in it and I have a few ?'s. Supposedly the tc on the car is messed up so I will be putting a new one in and I was wondering if I should go ahead and get a higher stall one put it? It will be a daily driver and prolly never go to the track but i will play with it on the roads and such. I will do no more mods then intake, exhaust, and no cats so it wont be seeing unreal power and I just wanted to know what would be best for reliability and daily driving. I was thinking of a 2800 stall if I got one...please let me know guys.
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05-19-2006, 01:12 PM
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am i going to notice anything adverse from running a 2800-3000 stall converter? I realize I need to put in an auxillary cooler for the tranny, but other then that are there any other mods that need to be done? How is the gas mileage affected around town and on the highway?
05-19-2006, 01:37 PM
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Speeds of 40 and up, gas mileage will not be affected because the TC will lock up. Depending on how you drive in the city, it may not change. I'm averaging about the same MPG as before the stall.
05-19-2006, 01:46 PM
#10
You will benefit from the stall in 2 ways.
When you floor it, instead of ******* its way up the powerband (slowly increasing rpms), it will flash it to 3k rpms (or whatever your stall is set at). It is similar to dumping the clutch in a 6-speed car.
Secondly, when you are driving certain MPH (40 and 70 for me), when you floor it you will hit dead spots. The gear will not drop down and you will slowly pull through 2k, 3k, 4k rpms and so on. With the stall, when you floor it, there will be no dead spot. It will flash up to your stall speed.
Having a stall puts your car into its peak power spots much quicker. You will drop about a second in the quarter mile with a 3500 stall and sticky tires.
On stock/bolt on cars 3-3500 is a good stall. I would not go less than 3000 though.
If you add a medium sized cam, 3800-4000 is a good point. A huge cam would benefit from 4400+ sized stalls.
Most people don't experience bad gas mileage as a direct result from the stall. However, you may find yourself hot rodding a bit more!
When you floor it, instead of ******* its way up the powerband (slowly increasing rpms), it will flash it to 3k rpms (or whatever your stall is set at). It is similar to dumping the clutch in a 6-speed car.
Secondly, when you are driving certain MPH (40 and 70 for me), when you floor it you will hit dead spots. The gear will not drop down and you will slowly pull through 2k, 3k, 4k rpms and so on. With the stall, when you floor it, there will be no dead spot. It will flash up to your stall speed.
Having a stall puts your car into its peak power spots much quicker. You will drop about a second in the quarter mile with a 3500 stall and sticky tires.
On stock/bolt on cars 3-3500 is a good stall. I would not go less than 3000 though.
If you add a medium sized cam, 3800-4000 is a good point. A huge cam would benefit from 4400+ sized stalls.
Most people don't experience bad gas mileage as a direct result from the stall. However, you may find yourself hot rodding a bit more!
05-19-2006, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT THIS
You will benefit from the stall in 2 ways.
When you floor it, instead of ******* its way up the powerband (slowly increasing rpms), it will flash it to 3k rpms (or whatever your stall is set at). It is similar to dumping the clutch in a 6-speed car.
Secondly, when you are driving certain MPH (40 and 70 for me), when you floor it you will hit dead spots. The gear will not drop down and you will slowly pull through 2k, 3k, 4k rpms and so on. With the stall, when you floor it, there will be no dead spot. It will flash up to your stall speed.
Having a stall puts your car into its peak power spots much quicker. You will drop about a second in the quarter mile with a 3500 stall and sticky tires.
On stock/bolt on cars 3-3500 is a good stall. I would not go less than 3000 though.
If you add a medium sized cam, 3800-4000 is a good point. A huge cam would benefit from 4400+ sized stalls.
Most people don't experience bad gas mileage as a direct result from the stall. However, you may find yourself hot rodding a bit more!
When you floor it, instead of ******* its way up the powerband (slowly increasing rpms), it will flash it to 3k rpms (or whatever your stall is set at). It is similar to dumping the clutch in a 6-speed car.
Secondly, when you are driving certain MPH (40 and 70 for me), when you floor it you will hit dead spots. The gear will not drop down and you will slowly pull through 2k, 3k, 4k rpms and so on. With the stall, when you floor it, there will be no dead spot. It will flash up to your stall speed.
Having a stall puts your car into its peak power spots much quicker. You will drop about a second in the quarter mile with a 3500 stall and sticky tires.
On stock/bolt on cars 3-3500 is a good stall. I would not go less than 3000 though.
If you add a medium sized cam, 3800-4000 is a good point. A huge cam would benefit from 4400+ sized stalls.
Most people don't experience bad gas mileage as a direct result from the stall. However, you may find yourself hot rodding a bit more!
05-19-2006, 03:14 PM
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I've heard lots of great things about the fuddle 3400/2.1 they recommend it to a lot of people in your situation (me, for example.) And I'm going to recommend it to my brother since my car is being handed down to him.
05-19-2006, 03:55 PM
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tha's kewl. I just know that I will not be running drag radials and I will not be taking this care to the track EVER so I don't care about all that ya know...I just want it to be more fun to drive...be a little quicker and such.
05-19-2006, 04:25 PM
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*Copied from Fuddle Racing*
1. Higher RPM Launches: Largely similar to "dumping" a clutch at a higher RPM, a higher stall converter allows your car to leave the line with more power hitting the wheels as you launch.
Here are a couple of examples of how the launches change when you step up to a performance converter. Variables such as different brakes, tires, and gear ratios effect how the converter stalls, but these will give you a general idea.
Example 1- Assume your stock stall is around 1600 RPM. Get into the car and hold your foot on the brake. Now at the same time you let off of the brake, stab the throttle like you are at the track. Keep a close eye on the tach. It will jump to about 1600 RPM and start climbing from there. If you moved to a 3200 stall, it would jump to about 3200 and start climbing from there. It gives you a huge punch by launching at a higher RPM and at an RPM that is more in the meat of your powerband.
Example 2- Again, assume a stock stall of 1600 RPM. Now, in drive, hold your left foot on the brake as hard as you can. Now slowly rev the engine with your other foot. Notice that about 1200-1300 RPM the tires start to break loose. Now imagine that you have a 3200 stall. You could now spin the motor closer to 3k before the tires started to brake loose.
2. Torque Multiplication: When an automatic transmission is launched, the torque converter actually multiplies the input torque. That multiplication is called the Stall Torque Ratio or STR. If you raise the STR, the amount of torque you have on launch also becomes greater. With a sticky tire, launches with a high STR can be down right brutal. STR
3. Shift Extension: Most automatic cars experience a dead spot immediately after the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. It will feel really strong all through first gear (with LS1's particularly at the top RPM because that is where LS1's like to be, high RPM's). Notice immediately after the 1-2 shift (and 2-3, if you get that high) that it seems to fall flat on its face for a couple of seconds. That is the dead spot and can feel like more than a couple seconds at the track. It feels weak until the RPM's get to where they should be, and the power feels like it comes back. With a stall converter, the RPM's do not fall like they do with a stock converter. Expect the RPM's to stay considerably higher after the shifts with a stall converter, completely getting rid of the dead zone.
4. Reduced Weight: (Does not apply to stock style converters)
A stock converter on an LS1 Camaro weighs 53 lbs. Our basic 245mm conversion weighs 30 lbs. While 23 lbs. of weight reduction does not sound like much, it is entirely rotational weight. The engine is now required to spin 23 less lbs. It now revs faster and considerably more freely.
Example- Take a short pole with a 53 lb. weight at its end and one with a 30 lb. weight. Try turning the one with the 53 lbs. and turn it by hand. Now try the same thing with the other pole. The lighter pole is considerably easier to spin. The same is true for the engine. The lighter one is easier not only to spin faster but to start spinning.
1. Higher RPM Launches: Largely similar to "dumping" a clutch at a higher RPM, a higher stall converter allows your car to leave the line with more power hitting the wheels as you launch.
Here are a couple of examples of how the launches change when you step up to a performance converter. Variables such as different brakes, tires, and gear ratios effect how the converter stalls, but these will give you a general idea.
Example 1- Assume your stock stall is around 1600 RPM. Get into the car and hold your foot on the brake. Now at the same time you let off of the brake, stab the throttle like you are at the track. Keep a close eye on the tach. It will jump to about 1600 RPM and start climbing from there. If you moved to a 3200 stall, it would jump to about 3200 and start climbing from there. It gives you a huge punch by launching at a higher RPM and at an RPM that is more in the meat of your powerband.
Example 2- Again, assume a stock stall of 1600 RPM. Now, in drive, hold your left foot on the brake as hard as you can. Now slowly rev the engine with your other foot. Notice that about 1200-1300 RPM the tires start to break loose. Now imagine that you have a 3200 stall. You could now spin the motor closer to 3k before the tires started to brake loose.
2. Torque Multiplication: When an automatic transmission is launched, the torque converter actually multiplies the input torque. That multiplication is called the Stall Torque Ratio or STR. If you raise the STR, the amount of torque you have on launch also becomes greater. With a sticky tire, launches with a high STR can be down right brutal. STR
3. Shift Extension: Most automatic cars experience a dead spot immediately after the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. It will feel really strong all through first gear (with LS1's particularly at the top RPM because that is where LS1's like to be, high RPM's). Notice immediately after the 1-2 shift (and 2-3, if you get that high) that it seems to fall flat on its face for a couple of seconds. That is the dead spot and can feel like more than a couple seconds at the track. It feels weak until the RPM's get to where they should be, and the power feels like it comes back. With a stall converter, the RPM's do not fall like they do with a stock converter. Expect the RPM's to stay considerably higher after the shifts with a stall converter, completely getting rid of the dead zone.
4. Reduced Weight: (Does not apply to stock style converters)
A stock converter on an LS1 Camaro weighs 53 lbs. Our basic 245mm conversion weighs 30 lbs. While 23 lbs. of weight reduction does not sound like much, it is entirely rotational weight. The engine is now required to spin 23 less lbs. It now revs faster and considerably more freely.
Example- Take a short pole with a 53 lb. weight at its end and one with a 30 lb. weight. Try turning the one with the 53 lbs. and turn it by hand. Now try the same thing with the other pole. The lighter pole is considerably easier to spin. The same is true for the engine. The lighter one is easier not only to spin faster but to start spinning.
05-19-2006, 04:46 PM
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preciate that 02...I read that and it was good information. I guess I have been into offroading and 4 wheel drive with Chevy's for so long that I am having a hard time with the concepts over here...sorry for such noob ?'s
05-19-2006, 06:50 PM
#17
Besides the downsides mentioned above of increased heat to the tranny (solved by a tranny cooler), and slightly worse gas mileage in the city, there is the feeling of "looseness" when driving around town (which bothers some people but not others).
05-19-2006, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RevGTO
Besides the downsides mentioned above of increased heat to the tranny (solved by a tranny cooler), and slightly worse gas mileage in the city, there is the feeling of "looseness" when driving around town (which bothers some people but not others).