CRASH 02

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2xLS1:</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ragtop99, are you on Yanks payroll by any chance??? Crash 02 has both rode in and driven my cars on the street and at the track. He helped remove the ST3500 from my 98Z and helped install the ST3800 in my 99 SS. I would say he does have first hand knowledge of my problems with Yank.[/QUOTE]

Hehe I know what I am talking about Ragtop99. Thanks for editing my post though. <img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" />

Dom

iTrader: (2)

I've had bad experiences with certain local shop. Tried to solve it in a piece full manner, but to no avail. So I did the 2 step program.

1.State Attorney
2.BBB

My issues were solved within a day after the shop received some mail. All of a sudden there was communication and bad customer service turned into a 5 star customer service. And that was for way less then you guys spend on those converters. It's free and worth a try.

You guys have enough people for a class action. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2xLS1:
<strong>
Ragtop99, are you on Yanks payroll by any chance???
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">no

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Crash 02 has both rode in and driven my cars on the street and at the track. He helped remove the ST3500 from my 98Z and helped install the ST3800 in my 99 SS. I would say he does have first hand knowledge of my problems with Yank.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Had he made it clear that he had experience with your car and that he was merely repeating your experience, I would not have edited his post.

gwj

I wonder what the all the factors are that contribute to problems with the ST series converters? I see what Ragtop is saying about the '01 & '02 cars and will accept that at face value.
With that and misfires aside, is there some differences in the materials used in the STs prior to the recent changes Yank has made?
Not making apologies for Yank here, but my ST3500 has around 10,000 miles on it. I do not run ported MAF ends, and the car is stock except for mods in Sig.
BTW I believe my converter was built in either October or November of '01 when Mike turned out a large batch of 'verters for a Fast Toys special.

Billy C

hmmm , Mine is very strange , I have the SY3500 and I seem to get heavy chatter after lockup in "D" a whole lot worse then in "OD" , It's funny in drive after lockup it chatters pretty bad but when I shift into OD it seems to get better , does this make sence ? It seems everyone else is getting it worse in OD ....

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I have had a Yank TPE4400-3600 and never had chatter problems.

If your setup does not lock up it's programming. My tranny did not lock up for a few years, whether I had the Yank, PI, or the MW converter in it (I had 3).

I have no experience with the ST chatter issue but I'm sure if the converter is funny Mike will take care of you.

TR

Amazing...

OBSSSD

Another thing to consider is having the transmission line pressure vary with the TPS. That was the computer uses the TPS instead of the airflow to calculate desired line pressure. That should ensure you have adequate line pressure, especially at WOT.

PonchoFan

After designing consumer products for over 25 years, my opinion of this whole mess is:

When a 'defective' product is sold, the best approach has been for a company to admit it and bend over backwards for customers who experienced problems. In this case, it appears that Yank is doing just the opposite. By redseigning the clutch and changing the material, they are admitting a problem, yet, with a carefully worded warranty, take no responsibility by blaming any problems on 'other factors'. Most courts take a dim view of this since the product should be 'fit for the use for which it is intended'. Warnings must be provided, cautioning against conditions which either render the product unfit for use or unsafe. No such warnings were recieved with my converter or anyone else, to my knowledge, that a 'ported MAF' or the use on a '01/'02 would cause
chatter, SES lights, or other problems. In fact, the warranty becomes worthless.
The result of this is comsumers, who do have a problem are screwed, unless they are willing to go to court to collect damages.

Toxic Texan

For the people having problems. I would like to know how many people here did a home install on the converter and how many had a tranny pro install it? Do you have a tranny cooler? Do you have a shift kit installed? I am just trying to get a better picture. Thanks for your help.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PonchoFan:
<strong>
Most courts take a dim view of this since the product should be 'fit for the use for which it is intended'. Warnings must be provided, cautioning against conditions which either render the product unfit for use or unsafe. No such warnings were recieved with my converter or anyone else, to my knowledge, that a 'ported MAF' or the use on a '01/'02 would cause
chatter, SES lights, or other problems. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The product is fit for the particular use intended. It is for high performance and racing use. The product performs that role very well and the product is not in any way unsafe. Chatter, while a nuisance, does not impede the use of the product.

As far as warnings go, Yank is not responsible for the the fact you altered other aspects of the car (MAF Ends) which interfere with the proper operation of the transmission.
You would be laughed out of court if you argued that Yank was supposed to determine the interaction of all aftermarket parts on its converters. Did the shop that sold you the ported ends provide you a warning that ported ends intentionally alter the proper functioning of the PCM in order to lean the car out for more power? Do you have a CARB or federal cert for those MAF ends or have you altered a part covered under the manufacturer's emission control warranty?

As far as upgrading the product, I don't see that as being prima facia evidence of a problem.

Loco

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Toxic Texan:
<strong>For the people having problems. I would like to know how many people here did a home install on the converter and how many had a tranny pro install it? Do you have a tranny cooler? Do you have a shift kit installed? I am just trying to get a better picture. Thanks for your help.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had a friend install mine. I also put in a B&M tranny cooler the same day the converter was in. No shift kit and stock unported MAF.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

I have installed all my converters. I don't see what that would have to do with it. Tell me how many tranny shop installs replace the input shaft O-ring, install a AC Delco filter and use GM Dextron III. Stock MAF ends, no cooler, no shift kit. I monitor my tranny temps often with A-tap and have never seen temps over 205 ever.

Ragtop99, Yank's website specifically recommends different Yank products for modified cars. Depending on the mods, they recommend different converters. (heads/cam cars included) No where does it say that you may need custom tuning with any of their products. I, like you still recommend Yank converters to others who ask for my advise when choosing a converter. Where we differ is that I will be upfront with them and will tell them that they do have some issues with driveability and that they will get no customer service when these issues arise. Why is that so hard for you to admit. I have yet to see a thread like this about PI converters. I lived with the chatter issue for about a year and over 10K miles on my Z because after 3 conversations with Mike, I realized there was nothing he was going to do about it. I could still live with it, but I must have a converter that reliably locks up. I do not have that now.

QuickGN

Not sure if someone posted this or not ( I didnt read all the post) but here it goes. The problem is more than likely not the converter. The 96 up 4L60E has PWM. What is happening is the trans is slipping the converter clutch for smooth engagement but lining on the clutch in the converter is aggressive and will not slip. So you are feeling the factory pcm slipping the converter. Every time it pulses you feel it. The factory setting will never lock the converter 100% One thing to try is to set the converter pwm at 30-60-90. This should help as it should pulse so fast that the converter stays locked. If not then call your tranny builder and he should know how to mod the PWM circuit in the tranny to over ride the factory calibration. If this a PWM problem a Vig converter or any converter with aggressive lining will do the same thing. I had this one bite me once till I figured it out. I would think that Yanks Trans builder should know this.

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: QuickGN ]</small>

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

QuickGN, you sound very knowlegable. One question I have is, I know you could burn up a 700R4 in short time if you drove them in OD without the converter locked up. Since the 4L60E is an electronic version of a 700R4, will the same damage occur on them driving in OD without lock up?

QuickGN

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2xLS1:
<strong>QuickGN, you sound very knowlegable. One question I have is, I know you could burn up a 700R4 in short time if you drove them in OD without the converter locked up. Since the 4L60E is an electronic version of a 700R4, will the same damage occur on them driving in OD without lock up?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes will cause trans to overheat. The pump can be Set up for non-lock up then would be fine as fluid id diverterd to the cooler. I dont know anyone that has done this on the 4L60E. Guys like the lockup in thier street car.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

Thanks Lonnie, If you will go back and read my posts, you'll see my main problem is with the converter not locking up. I'm the one that started this thread. I appreciate the help.

PonchoFan

I think Ragtop99 is in serious error over his interpretation of Yank's legal responsibilty as far as product liability in this matter.
A. ANY product that causes damage to other components is a direct liability of the manufacturer. If I put in a radio and it catches fire and burns the car up, the manufacturer is liable for replacing my car. Yank's warranty denies any responsibilty for damage to other components but, in fact, this disclaimer is worthless and is a scare tactic to avoid litigation. That's why GM ended up replacing entire engines when they shipped a batch of hotcams that were improperly heat treated last year. Design defects fall under the same category, and in this case, certainly point to the fact that a problem existed, necessitating a change.
Forseeable misuse has to be warned against by the manufacturer. This includes alteration by the consumer. There are countless examples of this; take a look at a lawnmower; it's nearly covered with warning labels, all necessary because of lawsuits.
Is 'chatter' an acceptable condition for a street car? I don't think ANYONE would consider it so, but this converter is sold as a street/strip converter, not a race converter.
Many have had chatter proplems without ported MAFs so blaming the problem on this is absurd, when headers, catbacks, and many other bolt-ons will lean the car out, yet, Yank's application chart shows this converter to be used with cars WITH ALL BOLT-ONS negating this defense.
If I walked into small claims court with 8 or ten examples of others with the same problem, a copy of Yank's warranty and apllication chart, and the fact that the chattering clutch has been redesigned, do you think I'd be 'laughed out of court'? My lawyer has advised me that, if I choose this route, with the aforementioned, it's a slam dunk in my favor. I don't have to prove 'beyond a reasonable doubt' or need 'PRIMA FACIA' evidence to prove my case.
And where did the CARB certification come from? My car passed emissions just fine with my ported MAF ends, thank you. And I don't see any CARB certification on the converter, either, so it's use is probably illegal on a street car BUT IS SOLD AS A STREET/STRIP CONVERTER ACCORDING TO YANK'S OWN CHART.
Collection of the damages is another matter.

<small>[ July 21, 2002, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: PonchoFan ]</small>

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A. ANY product that causes damage to other components is a direct liability of the manufacturer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chatter does not damage any other parts, so this arguement is moot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Forseeable misuse has to be warned against by the manufacturer </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Using the converter in the car is not foreseable misuse. It is use for its intend purpose. If anything, the only foreseable misuse Yank should warn against would be that using the product to race on the street instead of at the track.

Quickin GM: It was my understanding that the PWM effectively allowed about a 30 - 50 rpm slip, but I haven't measured it.

2X: If you find posts from late last year & early this year before the clutch change, I acknowledged that some 2001s were experiencing clutch chatter and that there was a risk. However, most 2001s didn't have problems, so maybe we disagree over the scope of the issue. Yank sells a fair amount product to those not to these boards; yet all amost all of the cars with issues have been people on the board.

QuickGN

Quickin GM: It was my understanding that the PWM effectively allowed about a 30 - 50 rpm slip, but I haven't measured it.

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Not sure of the RPM of slip but you are correct. This will cause the chatter that people complain about.